17:30:20 Live captioning by 
Ai-Media
17:30:31  HELANI GALPAYA:

17:30:33  Good morning.

17:30:36  Good afternoon and good 
evening to everybody.
17:30:38  Thank you for joining 
us today
17:30:40  on day two

17:30:42 , and the final day

17:30:46  of the expert forum on 
policy relevant research 
17:30:49 on disability

17:30:50  and inclusion and 
communication 
17:30:51 technologies.

17:30:53  Thank you for joining us

17:30:55  and thank you

17:30:56  for everyone who joined 
us yesterday.
17:30:58  We had

17:31:01  a really interesting 
and quite rich 
17:31:03 discussion around some 
of the research
17:31:08  LIRNE Asia has done, 
others are doing and the 
17:31:11 gaps in research.

17:31:12  On things that I really 
yet to be understood and 
17:31:16 framework. 
Today
17:31:16  we will cover two other 
segments focusing on 
17:31:20 policy and innovation.

17:31:22  In technology centric 
solutions.
17:31:27  This is not looking 
towards the future. 
17:31:29 Yesterday was looking at 
some of the past things
17:31:33 , today is about policy 
and practice.
17:31:35  Before I go into some 
of the
17:31:38  logistics I think 
yesterday there was a 
17:31:41 question and a very good 
one about
17:31:43  the open nature of some 
of the
17:31:46  research artefact, 
transcripts and datasets 
17:31:48 and the like.

17:31:49  I mentioned it yesterday

17:31:51  that we can

17:31:52  – let me

17:31:54  specifically relate to

17:31:56  their nature research 
in a pile
17:31:58 ,

17:31:59  Myanmar and India.

17:32:00  What the qualitative

17:32:05  transcripts as well as 
the datasets from 2018.
17:32:07  Can be made available 
to anyone
17:32:10  who is interested

17:32:17 , we welcome great 
analysis, building it 
17:32:19 into other work,

17:32:23  and depending on 
available working with 
17:32:25 you but that is not a 
requirement for having 
17:32:28 the transcript. 
Do get in touch about 
17:32:31 that. 
We welcome that. Back to 
17:32:33 logistics, I want to 
mention that we will be 
17:32:36 recording this academic 
discussion and it will 
17:32:38 be made available on the 
LIRNE Asia website over 
17:32:42 the coming days. 
It will be very visible
17:32:45  and we can possibly 
send out an email as 
17:32:48 well. 
We are also using zoom 
17:32:50 integrated live 
captioning feature to 
17:32:52 bring you real-time 
captions. So you can 
17:32:55 seamlessly follow the 
discussion, if you want 
17:32:57 to do that,

17:32:58  if you want to use this 
feature, please click on 
17:33:02 the closed caption or 
the CC
17:33:04  button at the bottom of 
the zoom window.
17:33:07  And you can turn that 
on.
17:33:09  Transcript also be made 
available
17:33:11  on our website

17:33:13  where you can look 
through and the search 
17:33:16 for comment relevant to 
you.
17:33:18  I think related to that,

17:33:20  best practice

17:33:24  at the internet 
governance forum is to 
17:33:27 start major 
interventions if you are 
17:33:29 speaking from the floor 
or as a speaker to state 
17:33:32 your name, it will then 
be captured in the 
17:33:36 transcript, and then to 
make your comments. It 
17:33:38 makes it easier for 
anyone to find your 
17:33:41 comments including 
yourself. To get started 
17:33:43 today, we will start with

17:33:47  Nirmita Narasimhan,

17:33:50  at inclusive ICT, you 
heard about
17:33:53  her yesterday. 
She was
17:33:54  the inspiration

17:33:55  and the catalyst

17:33:56  in a lot of

17:33:59  the PWD -related 
research and policy
17:34:02  influence work that we 
had been doing.
17:34:05  We are very happy to 
have her here today
17:34:10 . 
We won't do detailed 
17:34:12 bias, they are being 
made available to you.
17:34:14  I invite you to make 
your 10 minute 
17:34:17 presentation. 
Thank you. The RITA 
17:34:19 TRIHARYANI: Thank you 
for your
17:34:21  -- in RITA TRIHARYANI:

17:34:24  NIRMITA NARASIMHAN:

17:34:30  It has been a privilege 
to be part of LIRNE Asia 
17:34:34 work on disability over 
the past decade.
17:34:38  It was in 2011 when we 
started working together.
17:34:41  It has been an 
excellent learning 
17:34:43 process

17:34:45 , as LIRNE Asia grew in 
this space I grew along 
17:34:49 with it. 
For me the most, some of 
17:34:52 the most memorable times

17:34:55 , hands-on learning came 
from some of the 
17:34:58 projects that we did. 
It was very interesting 
17:35:01 that for me each

17:35:02 , when given to each 
country
17:35:07  we built on what we 
learned in the previous 
17:35:10 country. 
We built and gaps, 
17:35:12 findings, approaches and 
be covered a whole
17:35:15  gamut of policy 
intervention
17:35:19 , areas for policy 
intervention,
17:35:22  technology innovation,

17:35:23  capacity

17:35:24  building

17:35:25  on

17:35:27  parliamentarians, DPOs,

17:35:30  research. 
Some of the findings 
17:35:32 have been critical.

17:35:33  I personally have seen 
it the way it has been 
17:35:37 received and 
policymakers.
17:35:38  And also the fact that

17:35:40  a lot of research

17:35:44  still is donated by 
Global North research.
17:35:48  I think there has been 
some excellent work over 
17:35:51 the past decade to 
introduce,
17:35:55  I'm a policy person. 
I have been working on 
17:35:59 accessibility policy for 
the past 15 years.
17:36:01  I'm also

17:36:04  (inaudible) technology, 
I need a screen reader 
17:36:07 on my laptop and mobile 
phone. My e-book reader 
17:36:10 to read. 
One of the
17:36:12  earliest things that I 
started working on,
17:36:15  an organisation called

17:36:17  (unknown term) society 
in India,
17:36:19  was

17:36:20  website accessible to 
guidelines
17:36:22 .

17:36:25  Unfortunately, to this 
day I'm still talking 
17:36:28 about those access 
ability guidelines.
17:36:31  It is progress but 
still not there.
17:36:35  Over the past decade if 
I look back and reflect 
17:36:38 I see that a lot of 
traction has been gained.
17:36:42  On policy. 
In the region.
17:36:44  We have had regional 
treaties,
17:36:48  we have had a lot of 
countries like Nepal, 
17:36:51 India,

17:36:52  aligned their 
disability legislation.
17:36:55  But, in order to 
specifically look at
17:36:58  what gaps there are in 
policy,
17:37:00  and what

17:37:01  kind of evidence we 
have and what
17:37:03  can evidence

17:37:06  due to direct our 
future interventions and 
17:37:08 technology and policy,

17:37:10  that is the disability

17:37:15  accessibility right 
index. It is a global 
17:37:18 survey of countries 
around the world done by 
17:37:20 ddI to check. 
As to how countries have
17:37:23  – are progressing and 
implementing
17:37:27  ITC actors ability.

17:37:28  If you look at the

17:37:30  -- accessibility.

17:37:32  Globally,

17:37:33  there are a lot of 
countries
17:37:35  which have policies.

17:37:41  If you look at the 
school, sadly Asia has 
17:37:44 the least score among 
regions. That is because 
17:37:47 of a multitude of 
factors. Complexity of 
17:37:50 language, social 
economic conditions,
17:37:51  the tenants for which 
resources are available 
17:37:54 on

17:37:56  -- are unavailable. 
It is difficult to share 
17:37:59 technologies.

17:38:03  To find organisations 
who can communicate with 
17:38:05 you. 
To understand what is 
17:38:07 there and what is not 
there. We have our
17:38:10  complexities

17:38:11 . 
As a region,
17:38:13  while we have overall

17:38:14  constitutional law et 
cetera.
17:38:20  We have a lot of gaps 
in terms of policy 
17:38:24 around ICT accessibility.

17:38:25  If we see that in most 
of the ICT accessibility 
17:38:29 policy, be it

17:38:30  internet access, 
assistive technology,
17:38:32  mobile phones, websites,

17:38:33  e-book access

17:38:36 , smart cities.

17:38:41  Very few countries have 
policies in these areas.
17:38:44  These are definitely 
areas we need to work on.
17:38:47  Going forward. 
Even
17:38:49  when countries have 
policies,
17:38:52  we always slip on 
implementing.
17:38:54  It is a global problem.

17:39:00  Countries which have 
really done well and 
17:39:02 implemented have always 
had policies.
17:39:05  All countries with 
policies have not done 
17:39:07 well and implemented.

17:39:08  Some of our countries

17:39:10  have had websites 
accessible to guidelines
17:39:12  for a long time.

17:39:14  And it has not been 
implemented.
17:39:17  There are many reasons 
for this.
17:39:19  Like

17:39:21  light of awareness and 
capability. But also
17:39:24  lack of technology 
solutions.
17:39:26  Globally, if you see

17:39:27  there are

17:39:29  hundreds and hundreds

17:39:31  of technologies.

17:39:35  But they are not 
solutions for us. 
17:39:37 Because for us,

17:39:39  we need to identify for 
each region,
17:39:41  what is the gap area?

17:39:43  Will that solution work?

17:39:46  Whether it is a 
technology solution or 
17:39:49 not. 
Maybe it is a 
17:39:51 workaround. 
This has come from
17:39:56  within. 
When you're talking 
17:39:57 about innovation it is 
contextual.
17:40:00  It has to emerge from 
the community.
17:40:06  We have good examples 
of how we indigenously 
17:40:08 developed technology in 
some of our countries.
17:40:11  We speak many of our 
language is but
17:40:14  it has been late coming.

17:40:16  The

17:40:20  (unknown term), Tamil 
is being used by people 
17:40:23 everywhere. 
Mongolia has
17:40:24  added a text to speech

17:40:28  three years ago based 
on E speak. It is not a 
17:40:32 good quality but it is 
based
17:40:34  on an open source 
platform and it is 
17:40:37 available and it had to 
come from us. Otherwise 
17:40:40 we are unconnected. 
There are also examples
17:40:43  of the potential of 
many of us
17:40:45 ,

17:40:46  many people in our 
countries to develop 
17:40:49 technologies, for 
example if you look at
17:40:51  a build display,

17:40:52  it was

17:40:53  really expensive a 
couple
17:40:57  years ago. 
Globally it cost around 
17:40:59 $2500.

17:41:00  There was a

17:41:02  project in Mumbai, they 
develop
17:41:10  and it cost 400-$500 
called Braille me. 
17:41:13 Notice market globally. 
The potential is there.
17:41:15  Very less attention is 
paid on
17:41:17  to promoting

17:41:19  development of 
technologies. Two working
17:41:21  with the stakeholder 
community, to funding
17:41:23  –

17:41:25  commercialisation of 
these products.
17:41:29  I think there is a lot 
of work cut out.
17:41:33  If you are looking at 
implementing 
17:41:35 accessibility, it is an

17:41:37  ecosystem job. 
It is not like other 
17:41:40 policies

17:41:41 , you have a policy it 
will happen. It does not 
17:41:45 happen.

17:41:46  It is a very niche 
area. It is a niche area 
17:41:50 but it needs to be 
applied centrally. That 
17:41:53 is the only way the 
ecosystem is going to be 
17:41:56 accessible. 
It is not an exclusive 
17:41:59 policy. 
It has to be reflected 
17:42:01 everywhere. 
You have to work with 
17:42:03 all stakeholders 
especially the community 
17:42:05 of experts and users.

17:42:06  That is pretty much 
common all around any 
17:42:09 issue. 
It is driven by these 
17:42:11 different communities 
and that is
17:42:13  the same case here. 
The community has to 
17:42:16 articulate its needs. 
It is not for other 
17:42:19 people to articulate 
their needs. Partnerships
17:42:21  have been really 
important.
17:42:23  I would like to

17:42:25  end up by giving the 
example of
17:42:27  the (unknown term) 
campaign.
17:42:29  Many years ago we did 
not have access to
17:42:33  the

17:42:33  material because it was 
not permitted
17:42:35  under copyright law to

17:42:39  convert it into the 
format you want to read. 
17:42:43 I remember when I was 
doing my PhD, I had to 
17:42:47 buy 50, 60, 70 books, 
teddy pages, scanned 
17:42:49 them, and I could not 
share it with anybody.
17:42:53  Everyone has been 
having these problems 
17:42:55 until the community

17:42:56 , the visually impaired

17:42:58  community

17:42:59  campaign for 
internationally.
17:43:05  Internationally also,

17:43:09  the (unknown term) to 
facilitate access
17:43:12  to copyright for 
visually impaired or 
17:43:14 otherwise disabled.

17:43:16  This was

17:43:18 , why I would bring this 
example is
17:43:21  as this treaty was

17:43:23  getting concluded, 
getting negotiated,
17:43:24  simultaneously,

17:43:29  they set up a 
stakeholders platform. 
17:43:31 As a pilot to see how it 
would work.
17:43:34  There was

17:43:35  a publisher community 
on one side,
17:43:38  the governments,

17:43:41  it took time

17:43:43  to synthesise efforts 
and to come
17:43:47  to a working solution. 
But by the time
17:43:50  it got concluded,

17:43:52  there was an accessible 
box
17:43:55  platform. 
It started working.
17:43:59  That is the time

17:44:03  -- type of approach we 
need to have when it 
17:44:06 comes to policy.

17:44:08  How it will work and 
need to think about that 
17:44:11 right from the start. 
My initial comments are 
17:44:14 over. 
And
17:44:16  I am here if you would 
like me to go into 
17:44:19 anything else. 
Back to you, Helani,
17:44:22  thanks. 
HELANI GALPAYA:
17:44:23  Thank you, Nirmita,

17:44:25  we will certainly come 
back to you.
17:44:29  Before we open it up to 
everyone in the audience,
17:44:32  we have got

17:44:33  some really great 
speakers
17:44:35  to make some 
interventions.
17:44:38  They have been 
identified as discussion 
17:44:40 catalyst.

17:44:43  Maybe not only react to 
you but present their 
17:44:46 own thoughts and ideas. 
I will invite
17:44:48  Doctor Sarah Lewthwaite 
from the University of 
17:44:51 Southampton to get 
started.
17:44:56 o

17:44:58 n

17:44:59 e

17:45:00  SARAH DEAKIN:

17:45:01  Thank you so much, from 
yesterday
17:45:03  I had a different set of

17:45:06  thoughts but today 
going totally different.
17:45:08  I will try to be brief.

17:45:10  I want to talk about

17:45:13  critical approaches to 
digital accessibility 
17:45:15 policy.

17:45:16  We have talked about

17:45:19 , yesterday we focused 
quite substantially on
17:45:22  disabled people's 
experience
17:45:24  globally. 
This time I want to turn
17:45:27  onto people who make

17:45:28  our digital technologies

17:45:31  and the policy 
guidelines that they 
17:45:33 rely on.

17:45:34  To establish what is 
compliant
17:45:39  with accessibility law 
quite frequently or 
17:45:41 non-compliance, which 
tends to be standard 
17:45:43 specifically.

17:45:46  Web content 
accessibility guidelines
17:45:48  which underpin

17:45:50  a lot of accessibility 
law.
17:45:55  I think everybody in 
the neck with is aware
17:45:58  digital accessibility 
refers to whether
17:46:00  the services can be

17:46:02  accessed

17:46:02 , things such like

17:46:04  location devices and

17:46:07  others. 
This experience of 
17:46:09 accessibility is is an 
interaction
17:46:11  that is dependent on 
the service,
17:46:14  the user,

17:46:14  and in context.

17:46:16  Without anticipatory

17:46:17  action

17:46:19  on partner developers 
and designers,
17:46:21  digital

17:46:24  can't be achieved.

17:46:28  Digital inclusion. 
We talk about the web 
17:46:31 standards that underpin 
that,
17:46:34  the standards that 
establish the technical
17:46:36  (unknown term)

17:46:37  things like

17:46:40  assistive technologies, 
between browsers, between
17:46:42  the assisted

17:46:45  options with users of a 
range of
17:46:48  facility needs apply.

17:46:49  I would argue that

17:46:51  web standards

17:46:53  are visibly

17:46:54  Western

17:46:57  and export certain 
hierarchies and 
17:46:59 expectations with them.

17:47:00  Considering

17:47:01  disability,

17:47:03  which have

17:47:04  unknown impacts

17:47:06  in different locations.

17:47:11  To drill down into that.

17:47:14  I want to talk a little 
bit about
17:47:16  hierarchies of

17:47:18  impairment. 
So yesterday
17:47:19  we consider things like

17:47:21  the need to

17:47:23  disaggregate, 
disability to think about
17:47:25  data collections from 
different
17:47:26  places.

17:47:27  From different groups.

17:47:29  How their needs may 
vary.
17:47:31  Commonalities that

17:47:33  there may be between 
those
17:47:35  groups in terms of 
experience.
17:47:39  I want is also to think 
about how different 
17:47:42 cultures, different 
sizes, value
17:47:44  different bodies

17:47:44  in different ways.

17:47:46  Hierarchies of 
impairment
17:47:48  is a useful tool

17:47:50 ,

17:47:54  but thinking about who 
might be prioritised 
17:47:57 when we think about 
accessibility
17:47:59  and digital inclusion 
and who may be left out
17:48:02  in some of those 
discussions. We have 
17:48:04 talked already about the 
need for disability 
17:48:07 advocacy and so on. 
I think we also all 
17:48:10 aware that there are 
certain groups that have 
17:48:13 more advocacy 
opportunities and other 
17:48:15 groups. 
Or have greater resource 
17:48:17 for mobilising voice. 
So for example, in the 
17:48:20 web standards efforts, 
Western
17:48:21  line pupils 
organisations have been 
17:48:23 involved from the very 
start.
17:48:25  You could argue that 
some
17:48:27  guidance focuses very 
much
17:48:29  on the requirements of 
people using
17:48:31  assistive technologies

17:48:32  who have vision 
impairments.
17:48:33  Whereas the needs of 
people
17:48:36  with cognitive 
disabilities,
17:48:37  have

17:48:39  until the last few 
years, been missed.
17:48:42  So some of that

17:48:48  is about disabled 
people's organisations 
17:48:50 and their ability to 
mobilise and be involved 
17:48:53 in something like the 
standards efforts. The 
17:48:56 standards making effort 
I should stress is 
17:48:58 transparent, it is open,

17:49:00  but by virtue of a 
variety of factors,
17:49:03  disabilities is kind of 
structured within and 
17:49:05 through it. 
Based on various
17:49:07  intersections.

17:49:09  So, I want to say

17:49:11 ,

17:49:12  they do a lot of good.

17:49:14  They are important.

17:49:17  Technically important. 
I just want to tease out 
17:49:20 some of the issues

17:49:23  of intersections that 
may allow us to think 
17:49:26 about them critically 
and how they might be 
17:49:29 improved or work better 
for us in different 
17:49:31 locations. 
One of these is about
17:49:34 ,

17:49:35  where to start…

17:49:36  One is about

17:49:41  technical specificity. 
There is a sense of 
17:49:44 which web standards

17:49:45  and accessibility needs

17:49:46  can meet

17:49:48  in places where there 
is a clear technological
17:49:51  fit with the needs of 
certain groups.
17:49:53  So for example,

17:49:56  the accessible to needs 
of some groups are 
17:49:59 better known

17:50:00  than others. 
So for example for
17:50:02  lying people -

17:50:03  blind

17:50:04  people

17:50:06  they need to be able to 
interact with digital 
17:50:10 resources that

17:50:11  might involve a screen 
reader, voice to text,
17:50:14  rail interface and so 
on.
17:50:15  It may be less clear

17:50:17  how much support a 
buddy who has
17:50:21  a print impairment such 
as dyslexic
17:50:24  or something

17:50:26  such as memory

17:50:27  or other

17:50:30  cognitive needs. 
These are being explored 
17:50:33 and they are now

17:50:34  focused on some of the 
groups that have been 
17:50:37 missing traditionally 
from the standards 
17:50:39 efforts. 
But when we considered 
17:50:41 the standards and what 
they convey,
17:50:43  there is a need to 
consider
17:50:46  which groups are met

17:50:47  and who might be 
missing.
17:50:49  So there's also

17:50:52  the practicalities of 
standard making.
17:50:56  A question of web 
standards are made
17:50:58 ,

17:50:59  it's a difficult 
practice.
17:51:01  That may be

17:51:05  basics in terms of what 
is necessary for 
17:51:08 accessibility, there is 
also what is practical, 
17:51:10 what is feasible to 
implement. What the 
17:51:13 costs are. 
What is deemed to be 
17:51:15 possible

17:51:16 , from the saddle 
maker's perspective and 
17:51:19 also from the 
policymakers
17:51:20  perspective. 
What can be enforced, 
17:51:22 what can be monitored. 
In this respect I think
17:51:25  when we've done a lot 
of research about the 
17:51:28 teaching of access 
ability, many teachers 
17:51:31 are quite clear that 
standards represent a 
17:51:33 baseline, not

17:51:34  the ceiling of what we 
hope to do when we create
17:51:38  accessible tools and 
services.
17:51:40  And then there's also 
the question of 
17:51:42 knowledge and data. 
And evidence.
17:51:44  Standards making

17:51:45  frequently

17:51:46  anticipated, it has to 
anticipate
17:51:48  new technologies

17:51:50 , we talked about things 
like AI and so forth.
17:51:54  We've got cross reality,

17:51:58  (unknown term) reality, 
virtual reality 
17:51:59 environment.

17:52:01  And how standards are 
made to anticipate
17:52:03  these new tech areas

17:52:05  is

17:52:06  difficult.

17:52:08  Especially when we 
don't have evidence
17:52:10  about how they might be 
used
17:52:12  or the accessibility

17:52:14  barriers people face. 
There's always that kind 
17:52:17 of lag and accruing and 
change
17:52:19  insiders making process 
that is necessary.
17:52:22  Again,

17:52:23  as a question of whether

17:52:25  web standards can always

17:52:27  offer us

17:52:27  best practice

17:52:31  or only certain 
certainties that we then 
17:52:34 have to exceed.

17:52:36  And then on a broader 
hierarchies of impairment
17:52:39  that are culturally 
bound in terms of
17:52:46  those ideas of who we 
think of when we think 
17:52:49 of disability. 
Who might be missing, 
17:52:51 what the grey areas are, 
because disability is an 
17:52:54 experience so culturally 
contingent, so socially 
17:52:57 bound. 
So geographically 
17:52:58 influenced, how it 
relates to economics and 
17:53:01 so forth.

17:53:01  There's also the 
question of
17:53:03  disability looking,

17:53:08  being different in 
different places, being 
17:53:10 understood in different 
ways and different 
17:53:12 locations. 
The standard making 
17:53:14 process has 
traditionally been led
17:53:16  by Northern European, 
Northern American
17:53:18  organisations

17:53:19  and experts

17:53:20 .

17:53:22  It is open.

17:53:24  Everybody in this court 
can get involved
17:53:26 , if you are not 
involved already.
17:53:29  But the meetings do

17:53:35  take place in English, 
they are usually in the 
17:53:39 US and European friendly 
time zones. There are 
17:53:41 these tactical issues 
about how people get 
17:53:44 involved, how they 
maintain their 
17:53:46 interactions and the 
capacities
17:53:47  issue. 
So
17:53:50  those are some other 
things that I wanted to
17:53:53  race. 
Hopefully
17:53:54  we go little deeper 
into it
17:53:57  in terms of questions 
and answers, going 
17:54:00 forward I think there's 
a real need for
17:54:03  us in terms of the 
influence
17:54:05  of policy and standards

17:54:06 , to try and recognise

17:54:08  the local expertise 
that exists.
17:54:11  Within regions, with 
the nations,
17:54:13  which may differ

17:54:14  from these

17:54:15  categorical

17:54:19  exported ideas of 
disability as they are 
17:54:22 embodied

17:54:22  in web standards.

17:54:23  I think

17:54:25 ,

17:54:26  as I say,

17:54:28  an ongoing need for 
ongoing
17:54:30  perspectives.

17:54:33  Also targeting 
explicitly some of the 
17:54:35 groups.

17:54:38  This is my last words 
hello, sorry.
17:54:41  Targeting

17:54:44 , to think about what 
hierarchies of 
17:54:46 disability look like. 
Where we are.
17:54:48  I'd expressly talk it

17:54:50 rget

17:54:53  them for the benefit of 
all. Thank you.
17:54:56  HELANI GALPAYA:.

17:54:59  thank you very much can 
I ask
17:55:01  Professor Karen said 
dad take
17:55:03  from

17:55:04  Western Sydney 
University to speak now.
17:55:06  PROFESSOR KAREN 
SOLDATIC:
17:55:07  thank you very much for 
having us.
17:55:11  Great opening speeches, 
it is lovely to see you 
17:55:14 again Sarah, it has been 
a very long time.
17:55:18  Thank you for the 
invite, sorry I was here 
17:55:21 yesterday. 
I do want to just say
17:55:25  straight up, I'm very 
unprepared. I was quite 
17:55:28 sure what I had to do in 
today's session. I'm 
17:55:31 very sorry, couldn't 
make it last night. I 
17:55:34 guess my work in the 
space to begin, is 
17:55:38 really into primary 
errors. One is
17:55:40  persons with 
disabilities who 
17:55:41 identify themselves as 
coming from minority 
17:55:44 groups. 
Some of these relates to 
17:55:46 exclusively to some of 
the issues that Sarah
17:55:49  was actually talking 
about
17:55:50  in understanding

17:55:51  how the standards

17:55:53  of a digital

17:55:54  accessibility

17:55:57  across different 
platforms, really
17:55:58  designed

17:56:01  by dominant notions of

17:56:04  who has a disability 
and how
17:56:07  persons with 
disabilities
17:56:08  actually engage

17:56:11  within specific 
context. That is really
17:56:13  from a western

17:56:15  frame.

17:56:16  Even in the context of 
my work
17:56:19  really, I work with

17:56:22  people with 
disabilities from ethnic 
17:56:24 minority groups.

17:56:26  Who either first or 
second generation 
17:56:28 Australians, in 
particular with
17:56:30  aboriginal Australians

17:56:33  in rural and remote 
areas who rely on
17:56:36  government services and 
payments.
17:56:39  Increasingly,

17:56:40  from a policy

17:56:42  accessibility

17:56:44  point of view,

17:56:46  why were all thinking 
about
17:56:48  digitisation

17:56:49  in terms of

17:56:53  accessible websites and 
accessibility standards
17:56:55  and thinking about

17:56:56  access to screen

17:56:57  readers and so forth.

17:57:00  Particular for 
indigenous Australians
17:57:02  living in rural and 
remote regions,
17:57:05  one of the core issues 
around
17:57:07  accessibility

17:57:08 .

17:57:09  We're starting to do 
some similar work
17:57:12  with colleagues at the 
University of Colombo.
17:57:16  Looking at women with 
disabilities from ethnic 
17:57:18 minority groups. 
Looking at the way
17:57:20  that governments utilise

17:57:23  digital platforms,

17:57:30  to look at the 
redistribution of social 
17:57:33 prediction visions. 
Things like
17:57:34  cash transfer payments,

17:57:35  different forms of

17:57:36  subsidies,

17:57:38  partly

17:57:39  this is actually

17:57:41  -

17:57:44  it really comes at a 
critical approach to 
17:57:47 think about excess 
ability in the weight
17:57:50  digitisation is seen as 
a cost-cutting
17:57:52  measure.

17:57:53  In terms of

17:57:54  persons with 
disabilities.
17:57:55  In the delivery of

17:57:58  a sense of social 
services that were 
17:58:01 previously

17:58:03  done face-to-face. 
Now there are some 
17:58:05 benefits around that,

17:58:06  a lot of people 
disabilities
17:58:08 , particularly in 
southern context,
17:58:10  particularly people with

17:58:11  disabilities from 
minority
17:58:13  groups.

17:58:14  They actually prefer 
often
17:58:17  prefer to use digital 
platforms
17:58:18  when they can.

17:58:20  Because they don't

17:58:21  necessarily have to 
engage with
17:58:23  public servants.

17:58:24  Civil servants

17:58:26  who are usually from 
dominant
17:58:28  groups.

17:58:30  Within their local 
communities.
17:58:32  Hold a lot of power.

17:58:34  The digital platform

17:58:37  takes out

17:58:37  the visual

17:58:40  process of digitisation,

17:58:41  going into

17:58:42  government services. 
What
17:58:45  digitise

17:58:47 a

17:58:47 tion

17:58:49  also allows them

17:58:51  an ability to 
communicate
17:58:53  the information that 
they feel
17:58:55  is appropriate

17:58:56 , without feeling 
interrogated
17:58:58 .

17:59:00  As a minority person.

17:59:03  And the kinds of risks

17:59:04  that they might bring

17:59:07  for their sense of 
well-being
17:59:12  and their position of 
opportunity. So 
17:59:14 digitisation within the 
government
17:59:16  offers a number of 
benefits
17:59:18  to minority groups and 
people with disabilities.
17:59:20  Where they are already 
dealing
17:59:22  with the intersection

17:59:24  embedded this of

17:59:26  these kind of 
hierarchies
17:59:30  of a person of colour, 
or a person from a 
17:59:34 minority group with a 
disability.
17:59:36  Some of the core issues 
that they face
17:59:39  often, these are people 
who have
17:59:41  the last level

17:59:44  of literacy, often 
their first language
17:59:47  within the country

17:59:50  sites. 
They come from minority
17:59:52  language.

17:59:53  Issues of literacy

17:59:56  in normal communication

17:59:57  patterns,

17:59:59  much lower.

18:00:00  They are actually

18:00:02  qualitatively

18:00:02  different.

18:00:05  To the dominant groups.

18:00:07  Therefore,

18:00:09  the way that those 
government platforms
18:00:11  actually

18:00:13  set out belongs to one 
particular
18:00:15  cultural mode

18:00:18  and as Sarah pointed 
out, they often engage 
18:00:21 explicitly with.

18:00:24  So for example in 
Australia at the moment, 
18:00:27 we have high levels

18:00:28 , ministerial level, 
policy
18:00:30  discussions with

18:00:31  advocacy groups for

18:00:36  representatives of 
people with intellectual 
18:00:38 disabilities about how 
to design
18:00:41  government platforms to 
make them accessible for 
18:00:43 people with

18:00:44  intellectual 
disabilities. But we know
18:00:46  from talking to people

18:00:48  with advocate

18:00:52  that the part of those 
negotiations,
18:00:55  they are white, they 
are urban centric
18:00:58  inner focus,

18:00:59  and they often come from

18:01:01  middle-class

18:01:01  or upper-middle-class

18:01:03  backgrounds. 
Support issues around
18:01:08  -- broader issues,

18:01:10  issues of 
infrastructure, but also
18:01:16  not just infrastructure 
and the delivery of 
18:01:19 digitalisation services 
across rural and remote 
18:01:21 areas but also 
affordability.
18:01:22  Issues of affordability 
were actually
18:01:25  qualitatively different 
for minority groups
18:01:27  and ethnically

18:01:28  and racially

18:01:29  marginalised groups.

18:01:31  Because there

18:01:35  kinds of discrimination 
they need display in the 
18:01:38 labour market. 
Even though the platform 
18:01:40 may be designed for

18:01:41  disability inclusion,

18:01:44  often the kinds of 
assisted devices and 
18:01:47 technologies needed 
within the private
18:01:50  sector to negotiate 
this kind of government 
18:01:53 platforms that might be

18:01:56  enabled for people with 
disabilities actually
18:01:58 .

18:02:00  They can actually 
afford the devices.
18:02:02  They don't have access

18:02:04 .

18:02:09  So they become excluded.

18:02:13  Not just because of 
their disparity but 
18:02:22  HELANI GALPAYA:

18:02:23  Thank you.

18:02:24  They will be

18:02:25  time for questions

18:02:29  and we will come back 
to those comments. I 
18:02:32 invite

18:02:33  Samar Verma from the 
Ford Foundation to speak.
18:02:37  SAMAR VERMA:

18:02:40  Thank you.

18:02:42  Can you hear me well?

18:02:44  HELANI GALPAYA: Yes we 
can.
18:02:46  SAMAR VERMA:

18:02:48  Thank you very much.

18:02:49  I feel a bit

18:02:51  intimidated being 
invited
18:02:53  to an expert forum.

18:02:56  I don't consider myself 
an expert in this area 
18:03:00 at all.

18:03:00  Especially having heard 
the speakers just now.
18:03:03  I am not sure how much 
value I add.
18:03:07  I will try and come in 
with a slightly 
18:03:10 different perspective on 
this. I also apologise 
18:03:13 for having missed what I 
now know must have been
18:03:17  an excellent session 
yesterday. Having heard
18:03:19  responses to that from 
previous speakers.
18:03:22  I feel I am parachuting 
into this session
18:03:25  having a good

18:03:29  sense of what the 
context is. Allow me to 
18:03:33 say a few things.

18:03:36  When I think about 
issues of disability
18:03:39  – are you struggling to 
here?
18:03:45  ROHAN SAMARAJIVA:

18:03:49  It is very faint. 
Can you do something 
18:03:52 about the volume?

18:03:57  HELANI GALPAYA:

18:03:59  We can hear you.

18:04:01  Not as lonely as we 
would like.
18:04:07  Keep going please.

18:04:09  SAMAR VERMA: My 
apologies.
18:04:12  Just a few things.

18:04:16  We have

18:04:17 , when I think about

18:04:19  some of the issues I am 
reminded of
18:04:22  several films, movies

18:04:24 , coming from India, 
Bollywood
18:04:26  very popular.

18:04:29  A place where films are 
made.
18:04:31  I have often seen

18:04:35  what one film can do to 
change
18:04:40  an entire society and 
bring about policy 
18:04:42 change.

18:04:43  It's significantly more 
powerful
18:04:48  than years and often 
decades of research, 
18:04:50 evidence, alliance 
building et cetera.
18:04:52  This does not mean

18:04:54 , to be clear, that we 
should be doing
18:04:58  more filmmaking and 
less of
18:05:01  the policy and alliance 
building. But I think we 
18:05:04 need to go beyond some 
of the conventional ways
18:05:07  of influencing policy. 
And perhaps look at ways
18:05:12  we can reach to the 
hearts and minds of 
18:05:15 people at large. 
Through mechanisms and
18:05:17  social media today for 
instance provides one 
18:05:19 such modern mechanism.

18:05:22  In addition to films.

18:05:27  Platforms for example I 
see a lot of films being 
18:05:31 made which are very 
low-budget
18:05:33  nonmainstream actors.

18:05:33  With very powerful

18:05:34  messages.

18:05:36  Somehow I think

18:05:38  as a collective

18:05:41  we need to perhaps

18:05:46  spend a little bit more 
time and trying to 
18:05:49 understand how do we use 
this medium to bring 
18:05:52 about the change that we 
are all talking about?
18:05:56  I'm not going to talk 
about some of the key 
18:05:59 issues that have already 
been highlighted by 
18:06:02 previous speakers. 
I completely agree with 
18:06:04 the importance

18:06:06  of, we should be 
looking for technical 
18:06:09 fixes, we need to look 
at a social justice 
18:06:12 mindset as opposed to a 
charity mindset when it 
18:06:15 comes to working towards 
enabling people who live
18:06:23  independently and with 
dignity. And people of 
18:06:26 all kinds when I say 
people I don't mean 
18:06:29 people with disabilities 
but also the 
18:06:31 intersectional lens. 
People with disabilities
18:06:34  have multiple roles. 
Multiple identities, 
18:06:36 come from multiple 
backgrounds and all of 
18:06:39 these interpreted in 
different ways.
18:06:40  Different phases of 
life.
18:06:43  The ecosystem approach, 
the life-cycle approach, 
18:06:46 I think I critical.

18:06:47  At the Ford Foundation 
we have been trying to
18:06:50  several organisations 
towards this end.
18:06:52  We are particularly 
proud of our partnership 
18:06:55 with LIRNE Asia and Rohan

18:06:58  and

18:07:01  Danny, they are all 
people that we value and 
18:07:04 learn from.

18:07:08  There are 2-3 points I 
will try to make which 
18:07:12 is in addition to what 
has been said which I 
18:07:16 agree with. 
As I said I think we 
18:07:19 need to perhaps start 
using some of the modern 
18:07:22 mediums which are not 
necessarily as expensive 
18:07:24 as let's say hiring a 
world-class film actor 
18:07:27 which would have been 
pretty much impossible 
18:07:30 for most of us to do. 
I think platforms and 
18:07:33 social media provide the 
ability to sensitise, 
18:07:36 especially young minds 
which more, much better, 
18:07:38 much more strategically 
than was possible
18:07:41  even five years ago.

18:07:43  Are we really doing 
enough on that? I am not 
18:07:47 sure.

18:07:47  I do not see it being 
used as much.
18:07:51  And yet I see the power 
it can bring about in 
18:07:55 changing the mindset. 
And sensibilities. That 
18:07:57 is point number one.

18:07:59  Point number two has 
been said but I want to 
18:08:03 emphasise the importance 
of no matter how good a 
18:08:06 policy is, all of these 
standards whether we 
18:08:09 anticipate them, whether 
they are homegrown,
18:08:11  but that they are 
developed and created by 
18:08:14 stakeholders and

18:08:15  participants 
inclusively. The 
18:08:16 important thing is

18:08:17  that best of

18:08:20  policy standards 
especially in the global 
18:08:22 South,

18:08:22  when the rubber hits 
the road,
18:08:25  that is when we see

18:08:27  the basic problem

18:08:31  still continues to 
exist. Whether it is in 
18:08:34 terms of sensitisation 
and capacity building
18:08:36  of people who are 
delivering these 
18:08:39 policies on the ground, 
and it is not always 
18:08:42 that people who are 
directly responsible for 
18:08:44 delivering the right 
policies
18:08:46  to let's say people 
with disabilities are 
18:08:49 not sensitised.

18:08:49  It is just that they 
are not often aware. 
18:08:52 Nobody invest enough in 
capacity building of 
18:08:55 such people who are on 
the ground as soldiers 
18:08:58 of this. 
The third
18:09:00  and last point

18:09:01  is about

18:09:02  the important

18:09:07  -- importance of 
catching them young. I 
18:09:10 have school

18:09:10  aged children, when 
children begin to ask 
18:09:13 these questions in wider 
society
18:09:15  and wider forums.

18:09:18  Including

18:09:25  apartments and 
complexes, there are 
18:09:27 many examples I gave of 
how seniors and elders 
18:09:30 begin to listen.

18:09:31  While I know there are 
very interesting 
18:09:34 initiatives that have 
been taken. I think
18:09:36  this is also one of the 
areas need to be a 
18:09:40 little bit more 
intentional than we have 
18:09:43 been in the past. 
Thank you for this 
18:09:46 opportunity, I'd

18:09:47  truly appreciate being 
a part of it.
18:09:49  HELANI GALPAYA: Thank 
you, some are.
18:09:51  --

18:09:53  Thank you. 
Can I now ask
18:09:57  Regina Pasion from The 
Asia Foundation to speak?
18:10:00  REGINA PASION: Hello

18:10:01 ,

18:10:02  good

18:10:06  morning, afternoon, 
evening. Thank you for 
18:10:08 inviting me. 
It is so
18:10:10  great to note from the

18:10:12  research presented 
yesterday about the 
18:10:14 realities

18:10:14 , the Global South is

18:10:16  similar to the

18:10:19  issues we face in the 
Philippines. Thank you 
18:10:22 for

18:10:23  inviting me and giving 
me this opportunity to 
18:10:25 hear those studies.

18:10:27  Maybe I am not quite as 
well versed in 
18:10:30 technology as the team

18:10:32  and the other 
participants are but I 
18:10:35 am currently working on 
disability
18:10:37  sector

18:10:37  and policy reforms.

18:10:43  From what I am hearing, 
if what we are saying is 
18:10:47 that technology in 
particular, access to 
18:10:49 the technology whether 
that is internet or 
18:10:52 whether that is any 
assistive device
18:10:54  or technological 
advances becoming a 
18:10:56 basic right.

18:10:57  Or is very, it seems to 
have the potential to 
18:11:00 really

18:11:01  be an equaliser for 
persons with 
18:11:03 disabilities then we must

18:11:05  begin to understand

18:11:06  that it falls under now

18:11:08  the umbrella of 
accessibility
18:11:09  for all

18:11:10  basic services given by 
the government.
18:11:15  Then we can sort of 
assess in our own 
18:11:18 context how are these 
basic services given
18:11:21  to the persons with 
disability in my country 
18:11:24 or in my context? 
Is it more or less
18:11:27 , adding more or less 
inclusive? I know 
18:11:30 Australia might be more 
inclusive than the 
18:11:33 Philippines. 
We are learning from 
18:11:34 them. 
In it the Philippines it 
18:11:37 is a totally different 
story. Basic services 
18:11:39 for persons with 
disabilities is hard to 
18:11:42 come by. 
You add that reality, 
18:11:44 the political reality 
to, OK, basic technology
18:11:46  is not a basic right. 
It is becoming a basic 
18:11:50 right. 
Then is it now available?
18:11:52  Is it being made 
available by the 
18:11:55 government? 
Are there regulations 
18:11:56 that stop them from 
being accessed?
18:11:58  So, then if we

18:12:00  frame it

18:12:03  in the umbrella of 
basic services of the 
18:12:06 government, then the 
important
18:12:07  of the policy becomes 
clear.
18:12:09  The sea begin

18:12:11  -- policies begin the 
process of inclusion.
18:12:14  It is how

18:12:18  it meets our needs. 
Will it be one policy 
18:12:21 through them all? 
One policy
18:12:24  to over at everything 
accessible or technology.
18:12:28  Or is it going to be 
inserted
18:12:30  one at a time

18:12:32  in all policies

18:12:33  that modernise these 
basic services?
18:12:36  Technology included.

18:12:39  Again, these are very 
contextualised
18:12:41  on your context.

18:12:43  Your form of government 
as well.
18:12:45  But

18:12:46  one thing

18:12:48  that we always learn

18:12:49  in The Asia Foundation

18:12:52  is that policy

18:12:54  innovations and reforms

18:12:55  usually

18:12:56  become successful

18:12:57  if

18:12:59  by design

18:13:02  it accepts and works 
within the political 
18:13:05 context. 
The best
18:13:06  ideas, even if it is 
right,
18:13:10  rational,

18:13:13  it still faces the 
political reality.
18:13:17  It is not all the time 
the practical soundness 
18:13:20 will be readily accepted 
by
18:13:22  the

18:13:26  political. 
They might be so at out 
18:13:28 at each other that they 
need to be
18:13:31  signed in at the 
programming of the 
18:13:34 thinking of the 
discourse.
18:13:37  Sadly at times, even in 
the Philippines, 
18:13:39 political innovation or 
just innovation in 
18:13:42 general is the enemy of 
bureaucracy.
18:13:45  We have that to contend 
with. These are the 
18:13:48 political realities

18:13:49  that we might need to 
consider as we also 
18:13:53 think about the 
technical soundness of 
18:13:55 the technology or how

18:13:57  fast-paced technology 
has been advancing.
18:13:59  When we

18:14:02  inherently consider 
political realities
18:14:03  into the design,

18:14:05  from our experience in 
the Philippines,
18:14:09  it increases the 
possibility of it being 
18:14:11 implemented.

18:14:15  It gets to be embedded 
in the fabric of the 
18:14:19 rules. 
The formal rules
18:14:22  are now sort of 
influencing how the 
18:14:25 informal rules are made

18:14:27 , behaviours of people 
and all of that.
18:14:30  From our experience, 
that has been
18:14:32  positive. 
When you design
18:14:33  political –

18:14:35  sorry policy innovation.

18:14:36  It must

18:14:37  consider the political

18:14:40  feasibility of the 
context.
18:14:43  For my last point, 
there was an interesting
18:14:46  point raised yesterday

18:14:47  about

18:14:49 , it was also raised 
today
18:14:52  about the 
intersectionality of 
18:14:53 vulnerability.

18:14:56  I think Helani you said 
is disability the final 
18:15:00 frontier? 
After gender?
18:15:03  I think from our 
experience and of course 
18:15:06 yours might be slightly 
different or wholly 
18:15:08 different. 
It is important to begin 
18:15:11 to unravel and think 
meaningfully
18:15:13  about issues before we 
start addressing them.
18:15:16  In the Philippines 
access remains to be the 
18:15:19 biggest one. 
Persons with 
18:15:20 disabilities still do 
not have access
18:15:22  to basic services, 
technology included.
18:15:26  You put it into 
context, we are not the 
18:15:30 most modernised

18:15:30  in the internet round. 
Those things add up.
18:15:34  When those things add 
up the exclusion at all.
18:15:37  -- Adds up.

18:15:39  We are still trying

18:15:40  to work with

18:15:42  establishing

18:15:43  the sector

18:15:45  as a political effort 
and that is still
18:15:48  -- hard to do.

18:15:50  I think what has worked 
for us
18:15:52  so far has been

18:15:54  considering

18:15:56  the reforms of the 
innovations that we are 
18:15:59 trying to do in the 
political context
18:16:01 , how will it get 
embedded in
18:16:04  the formal process

18:16:06  that can change the 
informal rules. And 
18:16:09 behaviours of the 
people. That is all, I 
18:16:12 hope I was able to 
provide some insight
18:16:15  even though I'm not an 
expert in technology
18:16:18 ! 
I'm happy to discuss it 
18:16:20 further thank you.

18:16:25 actually because of 
their minority standards.
18:16:32 HELANI GALPAYA:

18:16:36  Rowan back

18:16:39  thank you I'm going to 
take over from what 
18:16:42 Sarah spoke about. 
Rowan Mac
18:16:44  SPEAK

18:16:45 ER:

18:16:47  What is different about 
the
18:16:51  countries that we 
working, either the 
18:16:53 former mandates are not 
there. Or
18:16:56  they are not 
incremented.
18:16:57 -

18:16:59 Implement a period

18:17:00  the question is do we 
tell
18:17:02  the government

18:17:03  to

18:17:07  impose mandates either 
through law
18:17:09  or decrees or whatever.

18:17:12  I do try to work around 
them.
18:17:16  When we were both going 
around
18:17:19  in Myanmar, we realise 
that
18:17:21  this copyright issue

18:17:22  was on.

18:17:24  Nothing had been done.

18:17:26  They had heard of us.

18:17:28  We would actually

18:17:29 ,

18:17:31  we don't have a rule

18:17:37  against telling 
government people what 
18:17:39 to do and what not to do.

18:17:42  For example in the case 
of Myanmar.
18:17:47  We thought our role was

18:17:47  in educating the various

18:17:49  decision-makers.

18:17:50  That we did.

18:17:55  About copyright law and 
other things.
18:17:58  By the time we got to 
know Powell
18:18:01  it was more that we are 
working with
18:18:04  foreign foundation 
money and
18:18:06  Ford has a specific 
rule against lobbying.
18:18:09  Again we step back from 
telling
18:18:11  governments what to do

18:18:12  and we basically

18:18:15  talk in terms of 
education and so on and 
18:18:18 so forth then got name

18:18:22  into the question of 
can we also get
18:18:25  some technological 
solutions that are also 
18:18:27 going along with other 
things.
18:18:29  Then we came up with the

18:18:32  (inaudible).

18:18:34  We began to think about

18:18:36  commercialisation.

18:18:38  And I hope

18:18:42  one day still here, she 
thinks that
18:18:45  commercialisation is 
bad thing.
18:18:46  But

18:18:47  I think you had

18:18:49  limited saying,

18:18:52  if you can have low 
costs
18:18:54  technology

18:18:56 ,

18:18:59  and can be that to make 
money out of.
18:19:02  We have this wonderful 
experience that because 
18:19:05 of the pandemic, we got 
kicked out of
18:19:08  -

18:19:09  our plant had to change 
your greater virtual 
18:19:11 model. 
It
18:19:12  We are people from as 
far away as Chile wanted 
18:19:16 to bring the product,

18:19:17  that specific 
navigation tools
18:19:19 ,

18:19:21  I can't remember the 
name.
18:19:23  Very interesting 
product.
18:19:26  To India and to 
localisation between the 
18:19:29 languages. 
Commercialisation I think
18:19:30  is an issue that

18:19:32  we worked with.

18:19:37  The ecosystem for 
developing
18:19:41  these kind of 
commercial projects
18:19:43  isn't mature enough.

18:19:44  We hear about

18:19:50  what we took in Sri 
Lanka through social 
18:19:53 civilisation. 
What to conclude by 
18:19:55 saying

18:19:56  what are the 
interesting things that 
18:19:58 we have coming back to 
Samer's question
18:20:01  is that we have some 
serious
18:20:03  munication challenges

18:20:04  in the work that we 
want to do next.
18:20:07  That is that we are 
saying that there are 
18:20:10 these persons with 
disabilities who could 
18:20:12 be in the workforce, how 
do we
18:20:15  bridge that gap?

18:20:16  How'd we get the 
employers to
18:20:22  be more hospital bill 
to them? Had we get them 
18:20:25 to have an application 
process and their 
18:20:28 websites? 
These persons with 
18:20:29 disposes can actually 
access, can use. So now 
18:20:32 we come to the question 
of websites and we are 
18:20:36 planning to do some 
automatic web testing
18:20:38  and website testing and 
things like that. And 
18:20:41 then of course the 
challenge,
18:20:43  how do we communicate

18:20:45  to the

18:20:45  different

18:20:49  communities of persons 
with disabilities.
18:20:51  Those who have hearing 
disabilities,
18:20:53  site

18:20:54  disabilities,

18:20:58  it's a big challenge to 
go back to them and talk 
18:21:02 to them. 
I think the expertise 
18:21:04 that is in this 
gathering on standards 
18:21:07 will be drawn upon, we 
really have
18:21:09  WC AG

18:21:10 , those kind of

18:21:12  standards.

18:21:14  As part of our future 
work. Thank you.
18:21:17  HELANI GALPAYA:

18:21:19  I know you had your 
hand at one point, would 
18:21:23 like to respond and then 
I can
18:21:25  bring your people to 
respond. I tried add a 
18:21:29 quick add on to part of 
his comment
18:21:31  on his question.

18:21:33  People do this,

18:21:36  where do people engage 
at what level
18:21:38  and what is effective?

18:21:40  Local and national,

18:21:41  whether it's 
standard-setting
18:21:43  making visible 
constituency and so on?
18:21:45  DR SARAH LEWTHWAITE:

18:21:47  I quickly chipped in on 
the first part about
18:21:50  whether

18:21:52  sanity to be legally 
enforced and in what 
18:21:55 ways. 
We've been doing the 
18:21:57 research

18:21:58  internationally with 
teachers of 
18:21:59 accessibility.

18:22:03  There's been two 
narratives that come out 
18:22:05 of that. 
That is in
18:22:07  Western countries where

18:22:10  web accessibility 
standards are very strong
18:22:13  and implemented through 
law, for example in the 
18:22:16 US now there are cases of

18:22:19  legislation where 
lawyers will test
18:22:20  the site

18:22:23  for accessibility. 
If it is not accessible 
18:22:26 they will recruit

18:22:27  disabled people to 
bring a legal action 
18:22:30 against companies. 
That is
18:22:35  pushing a lot of 
companies
18:22:37  forward

18:22:38 .

18:22:41  But is at the same time 
quite
18:22:44  exploitative practice

18:22:49  because of the question 
of what do disabled 
18:22:51 people actually need, 
what are their 
18:22:54 experience vs what 
website forgot to put 
18:22:56 text on something

18:22:57  and that has been 
pursued on that basis. 
18:23:00 Where the law is strong, 
teachers
18:23:02  of accessibility by and 
large,
18:23:04  refer to the Leeds to 
go beyond that
18:23:07  -- needs to go beyond 
that.
18:23:09  During the checkbox, 
new descent on
18:23:11  disabled people's 
experience comes in a 
18:23:14 place of

18:23:16  creativity and 
innovation and sander to 
18:23:18 get in the way of that 
to a certain extent.
18:23:21  They can be an abstract 
to take on what
18:23:25  disabled people need 
and what
18:23:29  -- when the access 
website. We go to 
18:23:32 countries where access 
multi-law is not strong
18:23:34  or is only expressed at 
the super level are not 
18:23:38 available to technical 
people. Your average 
18:23:40 website developer is not 
looking at the UN 
18:23:43 Convention on the rights 
of disabled persons with 
18:23:46 disabilities. 
If it's not translated 
18:23:48 down through policy and 
strategy in a way they 
18:23:51 can understand, they 
don't do it. They don't 
18:23:54 see the relevance. 
They don't see why, it 
18:23:57 becomes something they 
will add later if 
18:23:59 they've got more time. 
Maybe. It might be nice 
18:24:03 to have, but it is not 
seen as important to 
18:24:06 build in. 
Their teachers are saying
18:24:09  we need policy, we need 
standards to get it to 
18:24:12 the- - into people's

18:24:14  curricula.

18:24:14  But I would also say

18:24:16 ,

18:24:18  in places where it is 
more developed
18:24:20  accessibility still 
isn't.
18:24:25  Taught very often. 
Despite some of the 
18:24:28 things that are shaping 
the field more broadly.
18:24:31  I think there's a real 
battle over
18:24:33  whether and how

18:24:34  access ability can

18:24:39  be and should be 
taught. The moment the 
18:24:42 vast majority of 
specialists in the field
18:24:44  that are teaching 
themselves, it is about 
18:24:47 communities and 
practice, home-grown 
18:24:48 from the bottom up. 
It is not necessarily 
18:24:51 about capacity building. 
Inspired by top-down 
18:24:53 actions so by learning 
societies or
18:24:58  yes, that's anything. 
I just want to pitch 
18:25:00 those things in. 
HELANI GALPAYA:
18:25:02  Kim did you want to 
come in?
18:25:05  SPEAKER:

18:25:06  Slightly related to 
this.
18:25:08  Also related to 
something
18:25:15  the doctor mentioned 
earlier in relation to 
18:25:18 policy of mentation. 
This is something like 
18:25:20 web access ability is a 
change that could easily 
18:25:23 be audited. 
This policy changes that 
18:25:26 we would be wanting to 
see happen, it will be 
18:25:29 difficult to audit in 
the same way. So what we 
18:25:33 want to think about is 
more around
18:25:35 , this is what is coming 
out of the research that 
18:25:39 we have done. 
I think my colleague 
18:25:42 Ilse Bell, sorry I was 
not able to join. She 
18:25:45 was joining us today. 
She mentioned yesterday 
18:25:48 that we have a upcoming 
policy landscape, we 
18:25:51 have some insight and 
recommendations. From 
18:25:53 the recipient that is 
going to be published at 
18:25:56 the end of March. 
When the recommendations 
18:25:59 was around involving 
persons with 
18:26:01 disabilities, 
organisations with 
18:26:02 disabilities and other 
key stakeholders, in our 
18:26:04 sector or some of the 
policies related to 
18:26:07 mobile operators. 
Involving as many as 
18:26:09 possible of the 
stakeholders in policy 
18:26:12 development. 
In the policy developing 
18:26:13 stage which had been 
held on the fermentation 
18:26:16 site. 
We've seen several 
18:26:18 countries incrementing 
multi-stakeholder 
18:26:19 forums. 
Which office he help
18:26:21  when it comes to 
developing those 
18:26:23 policies, but also on 
the fermentation and 
18:26:26 monitoring of those 
policies
18:26:27  that make implication,

18:26:29  following up on those, 
those in fact have been 
18:26:33 incremented. 
That implemented.
18:26:37  There is a examples, I 
would be quite 
18:26:40 interested to hear if 
there are other good 
18:26:43 examples on whether 
example policies have 
18:26:45 been implemented 
effectively.
18:26:47  What some of the 
mechanisms were,
18:26:54  we seen the 
multi-stakeholder forums 
18:26:56 but also what the key 
stakeholders and persons 
18:26:58 with disabilities and 
policy developers stage. 
18:27:01 So having a effective 
monitoring and feedback 
18:27:03 loops in place.-

18:27:04  Groups Mac

18:27:05 .

18:27:08  That is certainly 
swimming we observe. I 
18:27:10 can echo the doctor

18:27:12  that implementation at

18:27:15  is a huge challenge.

18:27:17  HELANI GALPAYA:

18:27:23  who would like to 
respond that question? 
18:27:25 Related to that there is 
a question from Sam on 
18:27:29 the tractor was also 
asking about 
18:27:31 implementation. 
You can handle most but 
18:27:33 can we use things like 
business loss of 
18:27:36 business and shaming. 
To get some of these 
18:27:39 things implemented?

18:27:42  SPEAKER: That will be 
something that we are 
18:27:45 working on. 
I really don't think, 
18:27:47 given the (unknown term)

18:27:48  we can't be lobbying 
for new law anyway.
18:27:52  What we are planning to 
do in the next round is 
18:27:56 to work with, we have

18:27:57  one about

18:27:58  advisers

18:28:01  is with the Federation.

18:28:03  There are a number of

18:28:05  companies, leading 
companies
18:28:08  in Sri Lanka and we are 
also planning to 
18:28:12 hopefully extend to the 
power. Who really want 
18:28:15 to do the right thing. 
What we are thinking of 
18:28:18 doing is talk to them 
about what the right 
18:28:21 thing is. 
Then use them as an 
18:28:24 example for the others.

18:28:25  Not naming and shaming,

18:28:27  but naming and praising.

18:28:30  No matter

18:28:31  back

18:28:33  NIRMITA NARASIMHAN:

18:28:37  it will also depend upon

18:28:39  how effective

18:28:42  our law is and how 
effective
18:28:47  legal it is. 
In India for example,
18:28:50  I know a colleague

18:28:52  – like a lawyer.

18:28:54  They showed the industry

18:28:56  of finance,

18:28:58  it is not inaccessible.

18:29:01  This kind of

18:29:03  things are constantly 
happening.
18:29:06  It is not as effective 
as
18:29:09  working

18:29:13  with federations or 
other stakeholders. It 
18:29:15 may be so but it is more 
about converting
18:29:18  than imposing.

18:29:20  I find that for example 
I work with broadband
18:29:24  and their foreign.

18:29:25  That is a lot of 
industry
18:29:27 , a lot of companies

18:29:29  like Microsoft

18:29:30 . 
And
18:29:35  the first digital 
dialogue that we had an 
18:29:37 excess but it was on 
(inaudible)
18:29:40  two days before that we 
said
18:29:43  that we would postpone 
the meeting,
18:29:45  we fix it.

18:29:46  Then we will have the 
meeting,
18:29:50  recalled in all 
secretaries. But they 
18:29:52 didn't fix it!

18:29:55  (inaudible)

18:30:07 Slowly

18:30:09  by ensuring that

18:30:11  you are only procuring 
technologies
18:30:14  and

18:30:18  people that are 
sensitive, that is the 
18:30:20 way to go.

18:30:23  HELANI GALPAYA:

18:30:26  Thank you Nirmita,

18:30:28  we are just at 1 
o'clock. That is a 
18:30:32 session

18:30:33  that could have done 
with another 30 minutes 
18:30:36 to unpack some of the 
things that came up. We 
18:30:40 heard repeatedly 
yesterday's theme
18:30:41  which was while digital 
is good
18:30:43  and as Karen pointed 
out sometimes preferred
18:30:46  by persons with 
disabilities.
18:30:51  The fact that they are 
a marginalised group 
18:30:54 when it comes to 
education, income and 
18:30:56 all this intersectional

18:30:58  reality is by and we 
have to address those as 
18:31:02 we address at the 
digital solution for 
18:31:04 them. 
The theme of law and 
18:31:07 changing that came up.

18:31:08  It is a necessary thing

18:31:12  but not a sufficient 
condition. At least that 
18:31:15 gives you

18:31:18  a thing to hold others 
to account but the 
18:31:21 implementation of some 
of these laws I think we 
18:31:25 have to see because that 
might backfire if you 
18:31:28 take particular 
approaches as we heard.
18:31:30  The importance of 
really taking political 
18:31:32 context into account 
when engaging
18:31:34  in policy-making

18:31:36  as a make or break 
factor was another thing 
18:31:39 that came up. 
I think the last thing
18:31:42  that we probably did 
not unpack enough is 
18:31:45 this theme of engaging 
in policy is a hard job 
18:31:49 and it can even be a 
full-time job.
18:31:52  How one does it, in a 
sustainable manner,
18:31:55  in the right forum. 
These are difficult 
18:31:57 things. 
Unless
18:31:59  you are an organisation 
dedicated to that you 
18:32:02 have funding, this is 
not your full-time job.
18:32:05  People are living their 
own lives.
18:32:09  That provides its own 
challenges.
18:32:12  Let's come up with that,

18:32:17  mistake magnets, with 
that, go to our next 
18:32:20 session. 
This is the last session 
18:32:23 of our two day event.

18:32:31  This is focusing on 
technology based 
18:32:33 solutions, what can 
business capital do on 
18:32:36 this.

18:32:38  We have two speakers 
initially
18:32:40 , we have Divya Dutta

18:32:45  from the Vihara 
Innovation Network.
18:32:48  Divya, you have 10 
minutes.
18:32:51  DIVYA DUTTA: I think we 
have a presentation.
18:32:54  I deep dive right in.

18:32:55  We ran

18:32:59  a deep

18:33:01  study with persons with 
disabilities
18:33:08  in the past two years 
and followed it up with 
18:33:12 a pre-accelerate it for 
disability.
18:33:14  We will talk a little 
bit about what happened 
18:33:17 in this experience. 
We can move on from 
18:33:20 here. 
To the next slide. 
18:33:22 Essentially, one of the 
key findings for us was 
18:33:25 that we were seeing a 
massive gap between where
18:33:29  assistive technologies 
are at the moment
18:33:31  and where the 
complexity of user needs 
18:33:33 are. 
We can move to the next
18:33:36  slide. 
Next
18:33:37  slide

18:33:38  please.

18:33:40  This

18:33:41  talks a little bit about

18:33:45  user needs and an 
analysis of them but I 
18:33:48 want to dive into the 
findings. I believe that 
18:33:52 has already been 
assured. We sought 
18:33:54 despite

18:33:56  that there was a lot of 
policy interventions and 
18:33:59 policy recommendations 
going in the right 
18:34:01 direction, there was a 
gap between where the 
18:34:04 assistive technology 
solutions were and
18:34:06 , there was a lot

18:34:08  wanting in terms of how 
they were able to 
18:34:11 address the needs of 
persons with disability.
18:34:16  In particular, we found 
they were not fit for 
18:34:19 several context. 
And did not really count 
18:34:22 for the context

18:34:23  – complex

18:34:25  user experiences they 
have. Only some of them 
18:34:27 are

18:34:30  – they're working on 
occasion barriers for 
18:34:32 people with speech and 
hearing impairments
18:34:34  which is something that 
interventions have been 
18:34:37 developed for. 
Across
18:34:38  different

18:34:40  life dimensions, 
disabled people
18:34:41  find it challenging

18:34:45  to perform certain 
independent tasks.
18:34:47  But in particular 
communicating with
18:34:49  professionals caused 
them significant
18:34:52  anxiety and distress 
where their symptoms 
18:34:54 were not

18:34:56  being able to be 
captured very well.
18:34:59  It was a highly 
suboptimal experience.
18:35:02  There were less 
assistive technologies 
18:35:04 in that space.

18:35:05  Another example,

18:35:06  there were a lot of 
interventions seen in the
18:35:13  ICT space for visually 
impaired particularly in 
18:35:16 the online banking and 
e-commerce spaces.
18:35:18  As updates were being 
made across different 
18:35:20 devices and software is. 
It did impact how much
18:35:23  – how accessible these 
kinds
18:35:26  of interventions they 
were and how useful they 
18:35:29 were for visually 
impaired people.
18:35:33  In particular, again, 
persons with 
18:35:35 disabilities continuously

18:35:36  went marginalised and 
overlooked and did not 
18:35:39 have a

18:35:41  let's say enough access 
in times of
18:35:43  disasters or health 
emergencies
18:35:45  or calamities.

18:35:46  That was also a space

18:35:52  where there was the 
slowest response from 
18:35:54 the health system to be 
able to build solutions 
18:35:57 for them. 
We also found that there 
18:36:00 were several different 
kinds of solutions that 
18:36:03 even one person with a 
singular disability
18:36:05  had to use many times 
to undertake a simple
18:36:08  task. 
Some of those 
18:36:10 complexities as to how 
different technologies
18:36:12  had to be used were 
being used. By the end
18:36:16  user will not 
necessarily understood 
18:36:18 by innovators. 
Lastly,
18:36:20  the kind of access that 
one required
18:36:23  as a person with 
disability in terms of
18:36:26  what their options are, 
whether it
18:36:29  is with regards to 
technologies or 
18:36:31 disability friendly 
spaces,
18:36:33  assistive products.

18:36:35  The awareness of the 
access to these 
18:36:38 different choices was 
very low and user 
18:36:40 experience eventually 
was very
18:36:42  uninformed of what was 
available out there.
18:36:44  Essentially,

18:36:45  with this backdrop

18:36:47  of undertaking

18:36:48  research in the space of

18:36:53  understanding what it 
means to live with a 
18:36:56 disability and how it 
inhibits
18:36:58  independent living 
across areas
18:37:00  of mobility,

18:37:05  public life, 
participation, 
18:37:06 education, having a 
personal life,
18:37:07  we developed a choice 
of framework
18:37:10  that talked about

18:37:12  how essentially it was 
difficult
18:37:13  for people with 
disabilities
18:37:16  to be able to make a 
choice
18:37:19  to undertake a certain 
set of tasks
18:37:21  independently.

18:37:22  Because they did not 
have the assistive 
18:37:25 technologies required to 
do so.
18:37:27  In collaboration

18:37:31  with a few partners with

18:37:34  undertook a 
pre-(Egg)celerator Lab 
18:37:35 effort. 
With the aim to 
18:37:37 understand

18:37:45  what was out there in 
terms of
18:37:49  technology and mentor 
them from a focused 
18:37:52 perspective of user 
needs and be more 
18:37:54 marketable. 
Essentially,
18:37:56  one of the things that 
the pre-accelerator
18:37:59  wanted to do was great

18:38:01  a process of innovation

18:38:04  in assistive 
technologies where 
18:38:05 people with disabilities

18:38:08  were involved 
continuously and were at 
18:38:10 the court

18:38:10  of innovation 
development.
18:38:13  Systematically building

18:38:16  these

18:38:19  acceleration cohorts 
with existing policy 
18:38:20 interventions

18:38:26  and help them 
understand where these 
18:38:29 gaps are. 
That was another gap. 
18:38:31 Inventors and innovators 
were developing 
18:38:33 interventions many times 
independent of 
18:38:35 understanding what the 
policy prescribes
18:38:36  what the user needs are.

18:38:38  Finally, being able to 
also link
18:38:40  these innovators

18:38:42  in implementation 
agencies. This is 
18:38:44 something that I will 
kind of come to
18:38:47  a bit later.

18:38:48  Essentially one of the 
needs that we also
18:38:51  found was that it seems 
to be
18:38:53  an extremely fragmented 
ecosystem.
18:38:55  It needs to be brought 
together
18:38:57  at least in India.

18:39:00  There are reasons for 
that. I quickly go over
18:39:03  what we did in the 
pre-accelerator lab.
18:39:07  One of the things we 
started off with is it 
18:39:11 was difficult to get 
through and
18:39:13  identify assistive 
technology 
18:39:14 interventions. 
One of the first things
18:39:16  we did was engage with 
expert institutions and 
18:39:19 other organisations who 
were running 
18:39:21 accelerators to first 
identify who could be 
18:39:23 very promising 
accelerate teas
18:39:25  for pre-accelerator 
like this.
18:39:28  Over the course of the 
pre-accelerator we 
18:39:31 started on boarding

18:39:38  those individuals who 
seem to be the most 
18:39:41 committed and competent 
to take forward a
18:39:44  economic approach to 
disability which wasn't 
18:39:47 necessarily there in 
India. It is a small
18:39:49  community working in a 
fragmented way.
18:39:52  Eventually,

18:39:52  to build the

18:39:56  disability 
sustainability coalition 
18:39:57 which in

18:40:02  comprises of the 
partners you see on the 
18:40:05 slide. 
It have offered
18:40:07  incubation services as 
well as extending
18:40:09  mentorship and networks 
to accelerators
18:40:11  so that their products

18:40:15  can be better 
engineered towards user 
18:40:17 needs, can be enhanced

18:40:19  and in continuous 
dialogue with users and 
18:40:21 can see the kind of scale

18:40:23  that they need to see 
at a certain viable 
18:40:27 price point. 
We can move on.
18:40:29  This is just details. 
We got 60 applications
18:40:32  from a pool of selected 
entrepreneurs
18:40:34  across three disability 
excitement which were
18:40:42  visual, hearing and 
locomotive and also 
18:40:44 across disability 
hearing. What we were 
18:40:46 looking for when we 
selected many of these 
18:40:49 start-ups for the final 
pre-accelerated wear 
18:40:52 that they had a good and 
robust product prototype 
18:40:55 which was efficacious 
and they were so case 
18:40:58 and marking -- market 
traction. They had a 
18:41:01 sense for how they would 
scale or were showcasing 
18:41:04 their was a massive need 
for their product. There 
18:41:07 were showcasing the 
potential for scale as 
18:41:10 well. 
Finally, that there was 
18:41:12 a need from them 
themselves to be better
18:41:15  use attitude and 
meaning partnership 
18:41:17 support. 
Needing mentorship 
18:41:18 support in scaling

18:41:19  the product. 
We were also looking for
18:41:22  for profit

18:41:24  organisations that have

18:41:25  been supported

18:41:28  through an incubator.

18:41:30  We can move on to the 
next
18:41:33  slide.

18:41:36  This

18:41:40  was the first phase. 
This accelerator was run 
18:41:43 over a week. 
Where essentially
18:41:44  it was a mix of 
different kinds of 
18:41:47 experiences

18:41:48  that these selected 
start-ups were taken 
18:41:50 through. 
Our mentorship
18:41:51  was extremely helpful.

18:41:53  To be able

18:41:56  to open up the minds of 
these start-ups to 
18:41:59 understand

18:42:00  whether disability 
landscape is, when the 
18:42:02 ecosystem is, learn 
about disability policy
18:42:05 , intervention and 
innovation gaps that 
18:42:07 exist within the system. 
Understand
18:42:10  what kind of critiques

18:42:12  have been made of 
existing technology
18:42:15  interventions and 
assistive technology.
18:42:17  Both social

18:42:19  interventions as well 
as technological 
18:42:21 interventions.

18:42:25  Finally, understanding 
gaps from experts. But 
18:42:27 also deep dive into 
insight
18:42:30  from our study and 
understand real time 
18:42:32 would be experience

18:42:35  of persons with a 
disability around
18:42:37  visual,

18:42:39  hearing and locomotive 
impairment.
18:42:42  Post getting more 
systemic
18:42:46  views of the challenges 
and gaps are and then 
18:42:49 subsequently getting

18:42:50  richer insight on the 
lived experiences of
18:42:52  a range of persons with

18:42:54  disabilities. 
They were provided 
18:42:56 masterclass.

18:42:56  Essentially,

18:43:02  some of the gaps we 
were seeing was that 
18:43:05 they were not being able 
to evaluate that 
18:43:09 intervention. 
Or they did not 
18:43:10 necessarily always have

18:43:11  a business minded 
focus. They did not 
18:43:13 really understand where 
that market is. There 
18:43:16 was a series of 
masterclasses that were 
18:43:18 designed for them to be 
able to really go over
18:43:22  what user journeys are, 
user personas I 
18:43:25 emphasise with the user.

18:43:26  Take into account the 
lived experience and 
18:43:29 find a tune and 
calibrate the product in 
18:43:32 a way that it actually 
addresses the complex 
18:43:35 challenges that the user 
has.
18:43:37  HELANI GALPAYA:

18:43:39  You need to wrap up the 
next minute please. 
18:43:42 Thank you. 
DIVYA DUTTA:
18:43:44  In that case I will 
drop. I won't go over the
18:43:48  project. 
But go over some of the 
18:43:50 learnings that we had. 
Can we go to the next 
18:43:54 slide? 
These were some of the 
18:43:56 learnings from the 
pre-(Egg)celerator Lab.
18:44:00  One of the key 
learnings here is that
18:44:03  disability 
organisations often find 
18:44:04 it very difficult and 
high cost
18:44:08  to aggregate the user 
needs. Making the 
18:44:11 transaction costs so 
high they were unable to 
18:44:14 stream through assistive 
technologies
18:44:16  to these user bases. 
Again, having
18:44:18  a set of diverse 
disability
18:44:20  mated

18:44:22  difficult for that 
transaction cost.
18:44:28  We found that disability

18:44:35  technologies were not 
present at the available 
18:44:37 price point that persons 
with this abilities were 
18:44:40 able to afford. 
There was a port focus 
18:44:43 on user experience. 
Many times they were not 
18:44:46 culturally adapted for 
the context and the 
18:44:49 languages that they were

18:44:50  required to be in. 
Many times there were 
18:44:53 accessibility issues as 
well. Where a particular 
18:44:56 person with a

18:44:57  particular disability

18:44:58 , disabled persons

18:44:59  would be typically

18:45:00  interacting

18:45:03  – those were not the 
interfaces and touch 
18:45:06 points where a lot of 
these assistive 
18:45:09 technology options were 
being made available.
18:45:11  It's a huge gap between 
where the products were 
18:45:14 being developed and the 
price point, adaptation,
18:45:17  visibility,

18:45:19  towards those people 
who would benefit from 
18:45:22 those products. 
The next slide.
18:45:41 From an investment 
perspective
18:45:42  we also found that

18:45:43  while accelerators

18:45:46  are scaling business it 
is very difficult to
18:45:49  evaluate impacts.

18:45:50  That could be showcased 
with funders as well.
18:45:53  Particular frameworks

18:45:59  that are most 
comfortable with. One of 
18:46:02 the points which is not 
here is, innovators also 
18:46:05 did not have enough 
partnerships with those 
18:46:08 fermenting partners or 
outreach partners that 
18:46:10 are in touch with 
Putin's with disability.
18:46:12  -- Persons were 
disposes.
18:46:14 -

18:46:15  Disabilities.

18:46:19  Can be made available 
at a larger scale.
18:46:24  And so and so, 
eventually I think the 
18:46:27 whole! 
Group as well as the 
18:46:29 exaggerated group

18:46:30  came to similar

18:46:31  conclusion that

18:46:33  the entire

18:46:34  system is fragmented

18:46:36 ,

18:46:40  nonparticipating moment.

18:46:42  I can wrap up from here.

18:46:46  This pre-accelerator 
kind of help us
18:46:49 ,

18:46:52  bringing marketing

18:46:56  insights into the whole 
system. To be able to 
18:46:59 create a vision for 
coherent accelerator
18:47:01  or a collaborative 
effort for India at the 
18:47:04 very least. 
Where we are able to 
18:47:07 systematically and 
structurally
18:47:09  store some of these 
issues, which are with 
18:47:12 regards to involving 
persons with disability
18:47:14  and having a say in 
what kind of technology 
18:47:17 should be developed.

18:47:19  Having a continuous 
touch with innovators 
18:47:21 and persons with 
disabilities. Bringing in
18:47:23  fermenters like

18:47:24  linking

18:47:26  disability implementers

18:47:27  along with

18:47:29  the innovative 
community.
18:47:31  And

18:47:31  yours

18:47:33  finally also looking

18:47:34  investors

18:47:37  to this particular 
community.
18:47:40  I won't go into their 
vision for the final
18:47:43  accelerator, a couple 
of sites ahead
18:47:45  talk about

18:47:46  what the vision for the 
final accelerator is.
18:47:49  HELANI GALPAYA: thank 
you.
18:47:51  We will show the slides 
that
18:47:53  you have so that people 
can
18:47:55  look through it

18:47:57  and maybe we can 
address this in a 
18:48:00 question-and-answer 
period we now have
18:48:01  one of our partners.

18:48:03  From the northern part 
of Australia,
18:48:06  currently working with 
us.
18:48:09  The Yarl IT Hub, can I 
wait
18:48:15  while I pass and the 
ISI and. BALATHASAN 
18:48:18 SAYANTHAN: thank you for 
this opportunity.
18:48:20  This opportunity became 
together
18:48:22  because of

18:48:23  two opportunities.

18:48:27  One went for a meeting

18:48:29  and

18:48:30  bumped into a principle

18:48:32  of the school.

18:48:34  A secondary school for

18:48:36  visually impaired

18:48:38  and hearing impaired 
students.
18:48:43  Ensure anchor.

18:48:44  Then she mentioned that

18:48:46  because they are doing 
work
18:48:50  they're not doing that 
much work with the 
18:48:53 school.

18:48:57  There was a first 
trigger for us to bring 
18:49:00 the consciousness

18:49:03  start engaging and 
looking at this 
18:49:05 dimension that we have 
not looked at, secondly 
18:49:08 compliments down the line

18:49:12  with the team.

18:49:14  (inaudible)

18:49:17  we want to explore

18:49:20  technology projects,

18:49:24  we were so glad to get

18:49:27  the opportunity

18:49:31  from the Ford 
Foundation. To some 
18:49:33 context about

18:49:34  how we operate and what 
we do
18:49:36 ,

18:49:39  (inaudible)

18:49:42  and then the agenda

18:49:45  11 years ago.

18:49:47  We thought it was 
important that
18:49:50  we build an ecosystem 
over there which will 
18:49:53 enable and support 
technology.
18:49:57  Those are tools that we 
thought could be used to 
18:50:00 transform the society, 
for the last 10 years we 
18:50:04 been running initiatives 
including an encoding 
18:50:06 school, entrepreneur 
acceleration,
18:50:09  we've been attaching 
thousands of students
18:50:12  through our programs.

18:50:14  We been doing a lot of 
this but for the last 10 
18:50:18 years (inaudible)

18:50:20  this project gives us 
an opportunity to 
18:50:23 maintain and engage and 
learn through.
18:50:25  Eventually transfer 
this knowledge
18:50:28  that regaining through 
the start-ups and 
18:50:30 ecosystem that's been 
created around
18:50:33  technology innovation. 
What we did was
18:50:35  we got this 
opportunity, we came to
18:50:38  this school and we 
spent time
18:50:42  with the discovery 
process. During this 
18:50:45 process

18:50:46  one thing discovered was

18:50:48  an enthusiasm

18:50:51  and the contribution 
that came in from
18:50:53  students

18:50:54 , staff, principal,

18:50:59  at the school. 
They actually, we want 
18:51:02 to find a good problem 
to solve
18:51:04  which we could solve 
within three to six 
18:51:07 months.

18:51:08  They had actually

18:51:10  (inaudible)

18:51:14  that they presented to 
us.
18:51:17  It was very heartening 
to know the enthusiasm
18:51:21  that they had together. 
Some of the challenges 
18:51:24 that they had

18:51:25  revolved around 
learning, some around 
18:51:27 vocational training, 
some around
18:51:29  day-to-day activities 
that they had to carry 
18:51:32 out. 
It was a learning 
18:51:34 process for us to also 
understand and learn that
18:51:37 . 
Having said that, we 
18:51:39 have to narrow down to a 
particular school. 
18:51:42 Finally we settled down 
this particular problem 
18:51:44 that we figured out.

18:51:46  Students especially 
with hearing impairments,
18:51:48  found it very hard to 
learn
18:51:50  the sign language of 
technical terms
18:51:52  that they need for the 
school subjects.
18:51:55  For maths, science,

18:51:59  they might have 
technical terms. They 
18:52:01 found it very hard to 
learn
18:52:03  sign language of the 
technical terms.
18:52:05  Thereby

18:52:07  they were struggling 
with some of the 
18:52:09 subjects because of that

18:52:11  deficiency that they 
had around
18:52:13  making that connection 
between the technical 
18:52:15 term

18:52:16  and the sign language. 
One
18:52:19  we narrow down on that 
problem,
18:52:21  we built a solution.

18:52:23  We brought in

18:52:25  (unknown term) into 
this and we made
18:52:27  mobile app

18:52:29  which is basically a 
game.
18:52:31  There's no exam.

18:52:34  Students can play 
leisurely anonymously.
18:52:36  Without actually giving

18:52:38  details to us.

18:52:39  Also,

18:52:44  it is requested to have 
a facility near where 
18:52:47 they could look up 
technical terms as well.
18:52:50  We narrow down

18:52:55  and I explain the 
process we went through.
18:53:00  A solution for this. 
How we designed it,
18:53:03  we est

18:53:05  -- est

18:53:09  est

18:53:10 e

18:53:11 sta

18:53:12 bi

18:53:12 li

18:53:13 ste

18:53:14 d

18:53:16  (inaudible)

18:53:19  one's hand

18:53:20  you have the Sinai 
which,
18:53:23  and then the text of it.

18:53:25 -- SIGN

18:53:26 i

18:53:27 gn lan

18:53:27 guage.

18:53:30  Learning with the game, 
they can play
18:53:33  and graduate

18:53:34  to the next level. 
In the first
18:53:37  edition of it

18:53:41  we establish the 
relationship between the 
18:53:44 picture and the Sinai 
wench. Legislators are 
18:53:46 mobile phone, they are 
shown a demo of the app 
18:53:50 as well. 
-- They are shown.
18:53:52  Relationship between 
the Texan Sinai which 
18:53:54 eventually the 
relationship between the 
18:53:56 picture and the text. 
That is how the graduate
18:53:59  in the game.

18:54:00  We will design the app

18:54:02  and then we kind of

18:54:04  build it

18:54:07  which has two main 
features on it. One is 
18:54:10 of course the

18:54:11  technical terms, if I 
play this video here for 
18:54:15 you. 
This is what looks like.
18:54:17  The subjects are 
listed, the greater 
18:54:20 listed and then you have

18:54:21  the technical terms. 
Select a particular
18:54:24  technical term then it 
shows
18:54:26  the sign language

18:54:27 , the actual picture

18:54:28  and the text of it.

18:54:30  They can start 
collating and start 
18:54:33 looking up technical 
terms
18:54:34  if they wish to do so.

18:54:36  This was a feature that 
was
18:54:39  requested by teachers. 
Teachers sometimes 
18:54:41 struggle

18:54:45  to recall the right 
side luggage, especially 
18:54:48 when it comes to 
technical terms, used 
18:54:50 from subjects. 
We build this in
18:54:52  that they can look at. 
The second part
18:54:55  which is the most 
interesting part we put 
18:54:58 together. 
They correctly go in and 
18:55:01 play again. 
The game was very simple.
18:55:03  It's a quiz that they 
have.
18:55:05  Within the quiz they 
can go on site the 
18:55:08 subject, the grade that 
they want to play.
18:55:11  They are listed with 
labels
18:55:13  that they can unlock a 
level.
18:55:16  The play the game.

18:55:17  The connection between

18:55:19 , they start establishing

18:55:22  the sign language and 
the object.
18:55:24  Once complete the first 
stage they can answer
18:55:27  and we get to know 
whether
18:55:32  the answer is correct 
or not. They can proceed 
18:55:35 through the number of 
questions
18:55:37  that they will be 
presented with. They can 
18:55:40 complete the level I or 
level II and graduate 
18:55:43 into the next level. 
Then they can lock it.
18:55:47  It's a friendly 
environment.
18:55:48  One of the things we 
are offering to the 
18:55:51 school is also in the 
school collectively 
18:55:54 finishes at 5000 
questions, they will be 
18:55:57 rewarded with more 
gadgets for the school.
18:56:00  Thus the way in which 
we are trying to 
18:56:03 motivate them to engage 
even more. And actually 
18:56:06 use the app to play the 
game.
18:56:08  While doing this 
project we also went 
18:56:11 through several 
learnings.
18:56:12  I thought that would be 
interesting to share
18:56:17  from a learning 
perspective, things that 
18:56:19 we learn. 
One of the most 
18:56:21 important learnings that 
we let was this design 
18:56:24 sprint process that we 
used and that was very 
18:56:27 useful because we were 
very engaged
18:56:29  with the teachers, 
students and the 
18:56:31 principal. 
Also a lot of 
18:56:33 brainstorming and

18:56:34  design prototyping that 
we did with them.
18:56:37  Even with respect to

18:56:38  the visual aspect of

18:56:40  it,

18:56:42  the navigation, the 
colour schemes,
18:56:44  we actually got

18:56:45  really good feedback

18:56:48  from the teachers

18:56:49  especially with them 
commenting
18:56:51  with the

18:56:52  students. 
Especially the hearing 
18:56:54 impaired teachers

18:56:56  and students gave 
really good feedback.
18:56:58  Normally

18:56:58  in software when we 
build it,
18:57:01  one of the things that 
we do is we look for
18:57:05  inspiration which 
basically means
18:57:06  we try to copy concepts 
from other places
18:57:09  try to put that 
together build it.
18:57:12  It is pretty well known 
around the world that
18:57:16  go back

18:57:18  (inaudible)

18:57:23  it comes from Picasso, 
Steve jobs used it and 
18:57:26 everybody started using 
it. In this project,
18:57:29  where to place a copy 
from.
18:57:31  (inaudible)

18:57:34  figure out things, 
there was very little
18:57:36  app so that we can look 
for
18:57:39  inspiration.

18:57:40  There was this American 
sign I
18:57:42  which is very good.

18:57:44  It was inspiring for us.

18:57:49  The rest was not there. 
-- Sign language app
18:57:52 ,.

18:57:53  There's plenty of 
information from other 
18:57:55 apps to take. 
One of the big learnings 
18:57:58 came up.

18:58:00  (inaudible)

18:58:03  for building an app of 
this kind
18:58:06 .

18:58:08  One of the challenges 
that we found was
18:58:11  it was important that 
we have so clearly
18:58:15  and simple communication

18:58:21  across the board 
because people speaking 
18:58:23 different and just & 
average. We had to make 
18:58:27 sure that we had the 
stakeholders in the best 
18:58:30 possible way and of 
course agile development 
18:58:32 we had to take it in 
front of the users and 
18:58:36 get it validated. 
Moving onto the last 
18:58:39 part of it, what mean to 
to do next.
18:58:42  We intend to do with 
the platform model
18:58:45  of the software that's 
been developed is to 
18:58:48 open source and make it 
available (inaudible)
18:58:51  upload the content and 
the software so it is 
18:58:54 available. 
Develop in such a way 
18:58:56 that it will be easy to

18:58:58  bring in new content 
into it and also
18:59:01  localise with other 
languages.
18:59:04  (inaudible)

18:59:06  eventually

18:59:08  if there is a need and 
the interest
18:59:12  of this community 
building around the app
18:59:17  and in other places as 
well. We would love to 
18:59:20 see that happen and we 
support that in every 
18:59:24 way possible. 
The other one that we 
18:59:26 would be doing next week 
is a full implementation 
18:59:29 at the school which will 
be open for all the 
18:59:33 students currently 
present, a small group 
18:59:35 of students and teachers 
who have been using the 
18:59:38 app and given us 
feedback especially on 
18:59:41 the content side. 
Now we almost ready to 
18:59:44 run the school through 
it.
18:59:46  Thank you again for 
this opportunity.
18:59:48  If you have questions I 
would be glad to answer.
18:59:52  Her auntie and auntie

19:00:04  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:00:06  Could we jump right in

19:00:08  and can I invite

19:00:10  Professor Katie Ellis

19:00:15  45 minute intervention 
please.
19:00:16  KATIE ELLIS:

19:00:18  Can you hear me OK?

19:00:20  HELANI GALPAYA: Yes.

19:00:21  KATIE ELLIS:

19:00:23  I just wanted to say

19:00:26  thank you to LIRNE Asia 
for inviting me to this 
19:00:30 event. 
I am enjoying bringing 
19:00:32 together academia and 
policy.
19:00:33  Particularly

19:00:37  in this last discussion 
bringing in the insights 
19:00:40 of business and 
technology. What they 
19:00:42 can do as well. 
My reflection
19:00:44  which I will try to 
keep very short.
19:00:47  I want to reflect on my 
career
19:00:50  and where I started 
looking at accessibility
19:00:53  and what I try to think 
about these days.
19:00:56  So, in about

19:00:59  2010 I wrote a book 
called disability and 
19:01:02 new media with one of my 
colleagues.
19:01:04  What I was trying to do 
in that book was we were 
19:01:09 looking at how people 
with disabilities
19:01:11  are really prevented 
from getting online and 
19:01:13 using the internet. 
It focused a lot on the 
19:01:17 inaccessible side of 
things. Since then what
19:01:19  I have really tried to 
do more often now
19:01:22  is look at what people 
with disabilities are 
19:01:25 doing on the internet 
and using digital 
19:01:28 technologies and what 
they would like to do.
19:01:31  In it taking that 
approach I really 
19:01:33 started to think of 
disability as the 
19:01:36 ultimate innovator. 
People with disabilities
19:01:38  have to be flexible in 
their everyday lives.
19:01:41  They have to 
problem-solving all of 
19:01:43 the time. 
I think when we come up 
19:01:46 with accessible 
solutions for people 
19:01:48 with disabilities or if 
they come up with them 
19:01:51 for themselves,

19:01:52  as we talked about 
yesterday, they do 
19:01:54 benefit a whole lot of 
other people
19:01:57  such as the ageing 
population, people 
19:01:59 wanting to use their 
mobiles for
19:02:01  flexibility as well.

19:02:05  A lot of the 
innovations that we make 
19:02:08 up use of

19:02:09  in our everyday is

19:02:12  lives

19:02:16  like captions, 
voice-over and 
19:02:18 disability solutions and 
are led by people with 
19:02:21 disabilities. 
We really need to do 
19:02:23 what Nirmita said 
earlier today and that is
19:02:26 , these innovations need 
to be community led,
19:02:30  we need to talk to 
people with disabilities 
19:02:33 about their own 
solutions and what gaps 
19:02:35 they see. 
In the last two talks
19:02:40  we saw that people with 
disabilities and 
19:02:42 disability allies are 
engaged
19:02:44  to come up with

19:02:47  innovative solutions 
and technologies around 
19:02:49 disability.

19:02:50  I noticed throughout 
the two days
19:02:52  as researchers

19:02:53  we reflected a lot on 
how
19:02:55  we have had to change

19:02:57  our research practice

19:02:58  due to the pandemic.

19:03:02  While we might want to 
go out and talk to 
19:03:05 people with disabilities 
sit with them in their 
19:03:08 homes, and get them to 
show us how they are 
19:03:12 using technologies, we 
have had to do some 
19:03:15 really innovative stuff. 
In one of my projects,
19:03:18  I have been looking at 
audio description 
19:03:21 because it has just been 
brought in on television 
19:03:24 here. 
Something which we did 
19:03:26 to find out how people 
with visual impairments
19:03:29  would use audio 
description instead of 
19:03:31 going and watching them 
watch TV. What we ask 
19:03:34 them to do was write a 
love letter, a 
19:03:37 Valentine's Day

19:03:39 , to the subscript in a 
television provider or 
19:03:42 their provider that was 
not providing them with 
19:03:45 audio description.

19:03:46  It would either be a 
breakup letter are a 
19:03:49 love letter about audio 
description. And by 
19:03:51 getting these 
communities engaged with 
19:03:53 it

19:03:55 , emotions about 
technology, how 
19:03:57 important it is

19:03:58  in their everyday life 
we got some really 
19:04:01 amazing wonderful 
insights.
19:04:02  I would recommend

19:04:03  the loveletter approach.

19:04:04  As a rigorous

19:04:07  research tool in the 
future.
19:04:09  So,

19:04:13  just before I wrap up I 
wanted to talk about
19:04:17  two more things.

19:04:20  I think, as I said over 
the last couple of years 
19:04:24 we have had a digital 
revolution in the 
19:04:27 pandemic. 
We have all
19:04:29  had to move online and 
do things online. And 
19:04:32 often people with 
disabilities have been 
19:04:34 asking for these kinds of

19:04:36  accessibility features 
for a very long time.
19:04:39  And being told that it 
is not possible
19:04:41  or that is not how we 
do things
19:04:44  and you need to be in a 
room to work
19:04:48  with your colleagues. 
As we have seen
19:04:51  that is just not right.

19:04:53  My hope

19:04:54  is that we do not

19:04:55  lose against that we 
have made
19:04:58  in the pandemic around

19:05:00  digital accessibility 
for people with 
19:05:02 disabilities and

19:05:06  opening up spaces for 
people with disabilities 
19:05:09 to do things. 
That might not have
19:05:11  been able to before.

19:05:13  I think it's really 
interesting,
19:05:17  Karen mentioned that 
people with disabilities
19:05:19  are talking about how 
they feel anxiety
19:05:23  in communicating or 
engaging with 
19:05:25 professionals in a room 
that they don't feel
19:05:28  – so if they are coming 
in via
19:05:31  a digital means.

19:05:35  These are also issues 
we have to think about 
19:05:39 in terms of 
accessibility.
19:05:40  And that we could get 
some digital solutions 
19:05:43 for.

19:05:45  I really wanted to 
respond to Sarah's point 
19:05:48 around the hierarchy of 
impairment.
19:05:50  That she mentioned 
anything last session.
19:05:52  I will take this 
opportunity.
19:05:56  We need to think about 
this in terms of mental 
19:06:00 health as well.

19:06:01  I am a professor, I 
work in a university,
19:06:05  often we think about 
making content 
19:06:07 accessible for students 
with vision or hearing 
19:06:09 impairments that we do 
not
19:06:11  always take that same 
approach to students who 
19:06:14 have anxiety or 
depression or other 
19:06:16 mental health issues.

19:06:17  You also need 
accessibility
19:06:19 .

19:06:21  Solutions that 
digitisation
19:06:24  can offer. 
I will leave it there 
19:06:26 and hand

19:06:28  it back to you, Helani. 
HELANI GALPAYA:
19:06:30  Thank you

19:06:32 , Katie, and thank you 
for giving your time.
19:06:36  Can I now invite

19:06:38  (Unknown name)

19:06:39  from the

19:06:42  focus group and 
immediate accessibility.
19:06:44  --

19:06:46  Media accessibility.

19:06:48  We can hear you.

19:06:51  SPEAKER:

19:06:52  Thank you

19:06:53  for the invitation.

19:06:56  I'm very happy to be 
here.
19:06:58  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:07:01  Your video is not on.

19:07:05  If that is intentional 
that is alright but I'm 
19:07:09 just letting you know 
that we cannot see you.
19:07:12  SPEAKER: I will turn it 
on.
19:07:14  Hi,

19:07:15  I

19:07:17  am very happy to be 
here.
19:07:20  I am glad that I could

19:07:22  listen

19:07:23  to all of the 
discussions.
19:07:26  As I am introduced,

19:07:31  I am working at the 
ITU, ITU is part of the 
19:07:35 United Nations. 
We are standardising 
19:07:37 accessibility for ICT.

19:07:39  Using, for example,

19:07:42  some of the standards

19:07:44  that we are working on

19:07:46  is

19:07:48  telecom relay service 
as well as
19:07:50  captioning.

19:07:52  Remote

19:07:54  captioning

19:07:55  services

19:07:56  as well as

19:07:58  video remote 
interpretation
19:08:00 , sign language.

19:08:02  And also audio 
description
19:08:06  for the blind people. 
As well as
19:08:09  audio navigation

19:08:10  for visually impaired 
people.
19:08:12  We are working with

19:08:16  WHO, World Health 
Organisation
19:08:20 , inclusive accessible 
telehealth
19:08:21  to make

19:08:23  telehealth accessible.

19:08:29  Yes, so,

19:08:31  also

19:08:32  we are working with 
broadcasters
19:08:34  like European

19:08:36  broadcasting Union

19:08:37  to make

19:08:39  broadcasting accessible.

19:08:40  Like providing

19:08:42  sign language 
interpretation
19:08:43  and broadcasting

19:08:44  as well as providing

19:08:46  audio description

19:08:47  and captioning.

19:08:50  And

19:08:54  I don't know if I am

19:08:56  relevant

19:08:57  here

19:09:01 , for the implementation 
I think it is very 
19:09:05 important to make

19:09:06  standards

19:09:07  as

19:09:08  part of

19:09:10  legal infrastructure.

19:09:12  For example,

19:09:15  Telecom relay service 
allows
19:09:17  deaf and hard of 
hearing people
19:09:19  to make calls.

19:09:21  And this is very 
important because
19:09:24 , especially in a 
situation like an 
19:09:27 emergency,

19:09:28  I don't know what number

19:09:30  in that part of the 
world
19:09:32  use

19:09:33  for example 911.

19:09:39  In the United States. 
112 in Europe. In Japan 
19:09:42 we use 119. 
I don't know about what 
19:09:45 number is being used in 
India
19:09:47  arch Olenka or Nepal or 
Australia.
19:09:49  --

19:09:53  Sri Lanka

19:09:56 . 
It is necessary to make 
19:09:58 those numbers

19:09:59  accessible to persons 
with disabilities.
19:10:01  It should be done by the

19:10:03  government and 
mandatory.
19:10:08  Also broadcasting

19:10:09  should also be

19:10:11  accessible.

19:10:15  So that at least 
captioning
19:10:17  should be provided

19:10:18  as well as audio 
description
19:10:20  should be provided

19:10:22  on the broadcasting

19:10:25  programs.

19:10:27  We are working with

19:10:28  the broadcasters

19:10:30  around the world

19:10:31 , not only in Europe

19:10:37 , in the US, in Japan 
but also in India as 
19:10:41 well as Malaysia, 
Singapore and other 
19:10:43 parts of the world to 
make broadcasting
19:10:46  more accessible.

19:10:47  I think

19:10:49 , in the implementation

19:10:50  for

19:10:51  standards

19:10:54  has to be done

19:10:55  together with

19:10:56  the governments.

19:11:00  And government 
agencies, I think.
19:11:05  Web accessibility is 
very important but it is 
19:11:08 not, I think,

19:11:09  really part of the

19:11:10  government

19:11:11  policy

19:11:12  yet.

19:11:13  To make

19:11:14  web

19:11:15  accessible

19:11:17  except for certain 
countries
19:11:21 , the United States or 
Europe where
19:11:23  they make

19:11:25  procurement

19:11:26  require

19:11:29  the web services to be

19:11:31  accessible.

19:11:33  According to

19:11:36  W3C standard.

19:11:40  In many other countries 
and part of the world,
19:11:43  Web services are still

19:11:47  – it is over-the-top 
what you might call
19:11:54  something that is not 
part of the 
19:11:56 infrastructure. 
In order to make
19:11:58  web services accessible 
just like
19:12:01  broadcasting or 
telecommunication,
19:12:03  you have to make

19:12:04  web service

19:12:05  at least

19:12:06  some web services

19:12:08  to be part of the 
infrastructure
19:12:10  of the whole nation.

19:12:12  So that

19:12:14 , for example, there 
should be some
19:12:17  subsidiarity

19:12:20  measurement

19:12:20  to

19:12:22  finance the production 
of the content.
19:12:25  As well as resources

19:12:27  for developing content.

19:12:30  And

19:12:31  the government

19:12:33  should subsidise in a 
certain way.
19:12:37  We at ITU are working

19:12:39  with

19:12:42  persons with 
disabilities as well as 
19:12:44 other organisations to 
make
19:12:46  these things happen.

19:12:47  And to make

19:12:51  accessibility as part 
of the infrastructure
19:12:53  of countries around the 
world.
19:12:55  That is my comment.

19:12:58  If you have any 
questions I answered 
19:13:01 some of the questions 
you may have.
19:13:03  HELANI GALPAYA: Thank 
you.
19:13:05  Janitha Rukmal

19:13:07  you heard briefly from 
yesterday
19:13:12  from the Enable Lanka 
Foundation, you have the 
19:13:15 floor.

19:13:15  JANITHA RUKMAL:

19:13:16  Hello.

19:13:21  I suppose you can hear 
me and see me at the 
19:13:25 same time.

19:13:26  Very interesting 
thought all around.
19:13:29  Something

19:13:30  that I gathered

19:13:32  and wanted it to 
reflect on
19:13:34  was

19:13:34  how

19:13:37  the

19:13:43  nation can be used to

19:13:45  leverage the existing

19:13:46  gaps and how

19:13:47  research

19:13:49  and how different kinds 
of studies
19:13:51  can be beneficial

19:13:53  in this endeavour.

19:13:55  So,

19:13:59  as one of the 
organisations
19:14:01  in

19:14:01  Sri Lanka

19:14:03  he was into

19:14:05  promoting

19:14:07  and

19:14:08  proliferating

19:14:11  the technology used in 
practice
19:14:13  through

19:14:14  a small community of 
practice itself.
19:14:16  And being

19:14:18  shrill anchors

19:14:19  representative

19:14:20  --

19:14:21  sure Olenka

19:14:23  --

19:14:30  Sri Lanka

19:14:34  (inaudible) to touch on 
a forum of this nature.
19:14:37  As we talk about a lot 
of other countries
19:14:40  in Asia itself like 
Australia
19:14:42  we see

19:14:43  very good

19:14:44  ecosystems.

19:14:46  Which promote

19:14:51  the dynamic of inclusion

19:14:53  of persons with 
disabilities.
19:14:55  And independent living.

19:15:08 So I realise ensure 
anchor
19:15:09 , most of time

19:15:13  what happens in India

19:15:15 , someone

19:15:21  getting spacing to do 
something for the people
19:15:23  living with disability.

19:15:27  Choose other things like

19:15:33  they mentioned in their 
presentation.
19:15:35  The IT hub did.

19:15:47  Why don't you do 
something for our 
19:15:50 organisation? 
The people
19:15:51  in the organisation 
came up
19:15:53  with this

19:15:54  and they have this 
discovery phase.
19:15:57  I think this is kind of

19:16:00  a part of the cycle, 
the life-cycle of
19:16:04  innovation

19:16:05  in a certain sense.

19:16:08  Especially when it 
comes to software
19:16:11  or the development

19:16:13  of beta software

19:16:15  ready device or 
whatever.
19:16:19  Having said that,

19:16:21  I also wanted to 
reflect on
19:16:23  what kind of

19:16:24  gaps are existing

19:16:26  in our ecosystem.

19:16:28  For example,

19:16:31  there is this amazing 
product
19:16:33  designed

19:16:37 ,

19:16:41  called (unknown term) 
glasses alongside other 
19:16:43 products like

19:16:44  (unknown term) and so 
on.
19:16:47  Which fortunately or

19:16:49  unfortunately

19:16:52  were made into rancour, 
way before
19:16:56  Invision took up

19:17:00  and beyond the 
capabilities as the 
19:17:02 mobile activation.

19:17:05  But there is good 
reason why it was
19:17:08  not kicked off,

19:17:15  to an end-user product. 
The reason is because
19:17:19  the inventors of

19:17:23 , rather the innovators, 
founded
19:17:26  a lot of hurdles

19:17:28  in local systems.

19:17:30  In scaling the 
production up
19:17:33 , considering what kind 
of
19:17:36  produce they utilise 
and the input they 
19:17:39 receive. 
They were using this
19:17:41  device

19:17:43  on which you can install

19:17:46  OS X.

19:17:49  --

19:17:49  OS

19:17:50 N.

19:17:52  It is very portable.

19:17:55  Using a camera as

19:17:56  the input device

19:17:58  and a few hardware 
buttons.
19:18:00  They came up with this

19:18:03  creation, they came up 
with this innovation.
19:18:05  But when they

19:18:09  were costing it, they 
were not
19:18:11  interested in

19:18:12  large

19:18:13  profit margins.

19:18:15  But they considered Sri 
Lanka
19:18:18  is still a developing 
country and it should be 
19:18:22 affordable. 
Even as a local product, 
19:18:24 they had created

19:18:26  the recognition to be 
able to
19:18:28  read

19:18:29  and process

19:18:32  local tax.

19:18:33  So that it will be

19:18:35  locally received.

19:18:36  Even then,

19:18:41  we viewed the size of 
the products and many 
19:18:44 other issues, they could 
not continue.
19:18:47  That tells us 
something, that tells us
19:18:49  that

19:18:50  we have

19:18:53  not facilitated our 
start-up
19:18:55  ecosystem with the 
networks and approach
19:18:58  all connections.

19:19:00  To approach the 
international community
19:19:02 .

19:19:05  Give the guidance as 
well as the production 
19:19:08 capacity.

19:19:10  For these prototypes or 
whatever, innovations.
19:19:12  To become

19:19:13  the end use of

19:19:15  products is

19:19:20  inspired to be. 
Yet another small 
19:19:23 experience that I can 
say of my own is that
19:19:26  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:19:29  give this last point 
quickly because you are 
19:19:32 out of time thank you. 
SPEAKER: So
19:19:34  where I studied,

19:19:36  one individual wanted to

19:19:37  create

19:19:39  some

19:19:40  product that is 
beneficial for
19:19:44  those people. 
They were looking at how
19:19:47  voice commands can be 
developed. At the end of 
19:19:50 the day, I was able to 
sort of
19:19:53  change that perspective

19:19:54  and look at

19:19:55  solutions

19:19:57  to existing problems

19:20:01  whether human 
intervention in 
19:20:03 translation has been 
creating a lot of
19:20:05  instabilities or 
inconsistencies.
19:20:07  Automated

19:20:09  solution could provide.

19:20:10  It came out

19:20:12  as a product

19:20:16  finalised, finished by 
Sri Lanka Army
19:20:18 .

19:20:21  At the research 
environment centre. 
19:20:23 Unfortunately it can stop

19:20:26  at the school and 
nothing is happening.
19:20:29  This tells us

19:20:33  why the innovation is 
being encouraged,
19:20:35  there is no

19:20:36  proper ecosystem

19:20:37  of facilitation

19:20:39  for this

19:20:41  (inaudible)

19:20:47  intensive Third World 
country especially in 
19:20:49 developing assisted 
technology. With that 
19:20:51 being said, I hope

19:20:55  this nature will create 
collaborations and input.
19:20:57  For us to explore

19:20:59  more possibilities in 
the future
19:21:01  to tap into more markets

19:21:03  that lead to more

19:21:05  consumers that leading 
to more
19:21:07  avenues to explore.

19:21:08  Q.

19:21:10  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:21:10  thank you,

19:21:12  someone has a hand up.

19:21:16  SPEAKER:

19:21:18  I thought there were 
others,
19:21:22  I will be very brief 
period
19:21:24  from a lot of

19:21:26  economics,

19:21:26  once a previous life

19:21:28 .

19:21:31  Publication driven.

19:21:34  Academic.

19:21:40  We do our research and 
then we throw in this 
19:21:43 line at some point. 
About certain things 
19:21:46 that will not be viable, 
we cannot
19:21:48  support,

19:21:50  that need to be 
subsidised. Heard that 
19:21:53 several times today.

19:21:54  The question always 
arises,
19:21:57  how do we get that 
subsidy
19:22:02  decision? 
Where is that money 
19:22:04 coming from? 
We had a very 
19:22:06 interesting experience 
in Myanmar.
19:22:08  Where

19:22:10  the situation was so 
bleak,
19:22:13  I mean there was a lot 
of work to be done.
19:22:17  A lot of support had to 
be given to the
19:22:21  assist

19:22:23  persons with 
disabilities to use the 
19:22:25 services.

19:22:26  We were

19:22:29  in parallel as I 
mentioned at the 
19:22:31 beginning, it was 
basically a telecom 
19:22:33 reform

19:22:34  activity that we were 
doing with our partners 
19:22:37 in Myanmar.

19:22:38  Myanmar ICD developed

19:22:39  an organisation.

19:22:42  We were able to take

19:22:44  the learnings from

19:22:45  what we were

19:22:52  picking on the 
disability side. 
19:22:54 Including some of the 
survey research that we 
19:22:57 had, actually we didn't 
have survey research at 
19:23:00 that point. 
Probably we only had the 
19:23:02 qualitative research. 
HELANI GALPAYA: thing we 
19:23:05 had some survey results 
as well right? Whatever 
19:23:08 research we had from the 
ground. We were then 
19:23:11 able to take it to the 
government and say, use 
19:23:14 this fund. 
To support access by 
19:23:17 disabled persons with 
disabilities.
19:23:18  So what we mentioned 
about
19:23:21  emergency services

19:23:22  needing to be supported 
by
19:23:27  (unknown term) with 
relay services and so on.
19:23:30  That background was set

19:23:33  in Myanmar. 
That is where you kind 
19:23:35 of get the merging of 
the research
19:23:38  stream, the policy 
stream,
19:23:39  and the technology 
stream.
19:23:41  I think we need to 
think about that.
19:23:44  In many cases those who 
are not
19:23:46  in the policy area are 
very
19:23:48  quick to say

19:23:49  subsidise it. 
Give money
19:23:51 .

19:23:53  Except there are lots 
of other demands
19:23:55  money in certain 
countries. There is no 
19:23:58 money. 
We need to figure out 
19:24:00 where the money is. 
That I think is 
19:24:03 something that I want to 
mention head thank you.
19:24:06  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:24:08  can ask a question 
related to this?
19:24:10  This particularly is for

19:24:12  Jenny to,

19:24:14  in Divya, they were 
talking about
19:24:17  products. 
What are the revenue 
19:24:19 models you see first

19:24:21  this content and apps?

19:24:22  I can't imagine what we 
see
19:24:24  in the regular world

19:24:27  with the premium models

19:24:30 , is it also

19:24:32  investing

19:24:34 ? 
Is it subsidising 
19:24:35 funding from donors

19:24:39  who are not expected to 
return? Other commercial 
19:24:42 investments that you 
see? Not for your 
19:24:44 products, what is 
happening there in terms 
19:24:47 of capital flowing into 
this?
19:24:49  JANITHA RUKMAL:

19:24:51  one of the very

19:24:54  pragmatic models that

19:24:55  I have,

19:24:59  I think many of the

19:25:02  scholars are aware of 
this app called
19:25:04  be my eyes.

19:25:06  It is an app that

19:25:07  helps

19:25:10  visual impaired people,

19:25:12  they specialised 
services
19:25:14 .

19:25:17  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:25:19  (inaudible)

19:25:23  the app is one level 
and the rest you need to 
19:25:27 pay for? 
JANITHA RUKMAL: not 
19:25:29 really.

19:25:30  It is not the case.

19:25:33  They get the corporate 
board.
19:25:37  Such as the big names 
like Google, Microsoft,
19:25:40  and their own 
organisation.
19:25:42  Using that, they can

19:25:46 , some of these 
organisations as far as 
19:25:49 I have heard,

19:25:50  back then they could 
help them maintain their 
19:25:53 service

19:25:55  with (unknown term)

19:25:58  or the financial

19:26:01  contribution to getting 
going.
19:26:04  From their side

19:26:06  to CSR,

19:26:08  from the side it is 
helping
19:26:10  the product to keep 
going.
19:26:13  This is not exactly 
like the kind of
19:26:19  mobile applications and 
so on. This module
19:26:21  is

19:26:23  maybe more viable.

19:26:25  It is grating 
opportunity.
19:26:27  Considering that

19:26:31  for example a company 
like Microsoft
19:26:33 ,

19:26:34  it is that users who

19:26:35  get in touch with them 
and they get
19:26:38  to assess how much of

19:26:40  that product

19:26:43  are being utilised, what

19:26:45  the issues are and so 
on.
19:26:47  HELANI GALPAYA: OK.

19:26:49  Other speakers

19:26:53  and interventions if 
you can keep it quick 
19:26:56 please. 
BALATHASAN SAYANTHAN: 
19:26:57 from the

19:26:58  app that we had 
developed,
19:27:01  other possibilities in 
the future,
19:27:05  if someone wants to 
develop that further
19:27:08  likely features 
anything.
19:27:09  No services

19:27:13  can come in. 
It can be for a school 
19:27:16 who wants to apply it

19:27:18  for a particular 
organisation who wants 
19:27:20 to deploy

19:27:21  another locality. 
There's an opportunity 
19:27:23 for taking that

19:27:24 #.

19:27:27  SPEAKER: I jump on 
behalf
19:27:31  of the Indian work.

19:27:35  Ask kept asking all 
these companies that was 
19:27:38 shortlisted for the

19:27:39  (unknown term) what 
their revenue models 
19:27:41 were,

19:27:44  what the key 
differentiator is, what 
19:27:46 some of the most 
interesting modules were
19:27:49  for example a bank.

19:27:50  They needed to provide 
facilities for
19:27:53  their blind customers.

19:27:57  The customers would be 
encouraged to
19:27:59  put on a

19:28:00  -

19:28:01 -

19:28:03  load up an app on 
iPhone.
19:28:05  Putting the beacons

19:28:07  on very other things 
cost money.
19:28:13  The bank put the 
subscription module for 
19:28:15 the bank, there was 
another one that came up
19:28:19 , it was on a winner. 
I'm talking about the 
19:28:22 winner, the number one 
application. There was 
19:28:25 another one where it was 
something about being in 
19:28:28 seminaries --

19:28:29  cinemas. 
Getting an 
19:28:30 interpretation of 
services for people who 
19:28:32 couldn't actually follow 
the story.
19:28:34  The whole idea was

19:28:37  you persuade the cinema 
owners
19:28:39  to pay a subscription 
to say
19:28:42  this facility existed.

19:28:44  The app itself would be 
free.
19:28:48  The Indian module seem 
to be a very low touch
19:28:52 , they were trying to 
meet --
19:28:54  make money from the 
disabled people per se.
19:28:57  Try to make it from

19:28:59  the service providers, 
the hospitals, so on.
19:29:02  We really do think that 
there is possibility
19:29:05  of government hospitals

19:29:06  for example,

19:29:07  wanting to provide

19:29:08  certain services.

19:29:09  Somebody can

19:29:10  do

19:29:10  the app

19:29:11 .

19:29:13  Unfortunately our 
people think
19:29:18  that when software is 
done it is done. They 
19:29:21 don't understand that 
software has to be 
19:29:24 maintained, things have 
to be replaced, they 
19:29:26 just don't understand 
the continuity of 
19:29:28 keeping this going.

19:29:30  HELANI GALPAYA: thank 
you, Kim I know you are 
19:29:33 waiting. 
We going to have a short 
19:29:36 intervention from

19:29:37  Doctor Muhammad Shabbir 
Awan, if you can keep it 
19:29:41 under two to three 
minutes please.
19:29:52 I was thinking

19:29:53  we let

19:29:55 … SPEAKER: That is fine, 
I will wait.
19:30:02  MUHAMMAD SHABBIR AWAN:

19:30:04  Can you hear me?

19:30:06  Am I audible?

19:30:08  HELANI GALPAYA:

19:30:09  Yes.

19:30:10  MUHAMMAD SHABBIR AWAN:

19:30:12  I will give this very 
quick.
19:30:15  There are a couple 
things that I wanted to
19:30:18  highlight. 
The first is
19:30:20  the apps

19:30:21  and the websites we are 
discussing
19:30:23 , particularly with 
reference
19:30:24  to the innovation

19:30:28  and employment of 
persons with 
19:30:30 disabilities.

19:30:32  Since the COVID. 
Started, there has been
19:30:34  a lot of

19:30:36  innovations and 
applications
19:30:40  that people with 
disabilities, 
19:30:41 particularly in this 
region have started 
19:30:44 using. 
I know a number of
19:30:46  people with vision 
impairments who have 
19:30:48 started even using

19:30:49  the

19:30:58  stock market and 
different brokers 
19:30:59 Piccadilly and Pakistan 
have made their apps, 
19:31:02 mobile apps particularly 
accessible. For people 
19:31:04 with disabilities just 
to have more customer 
19:31:07 base. 
In a disability field.
19:31:09  This would be one of 
the ideas
19:31:11  that could be 
replicated.
19:31:13  With regards

19:31:14  to opportunities

19:31:21  I serve as the board

19:31:22  of the internet society

19:31:25  which is a global 
organisation.
19:31:27  Not specifically working

19:31:29  for persons with 
disabilities,
19:31:30  but

19:31:32  the domain of the 
internet society
19:31:34  is the development, 
strength
19:31:36  and promotion

19:31:38  of the resilience of 
the internet.
19:31:41  And to make

19:31:42  the internet 
accessible, internet 
19:31:43 society

19:31:44  has a chapter

19:31:45  educated

19:31:51  -- dedicated to persons 
with disabilities called 
19:31:54 the access ability 
standing group. This 
19:31:56 group

19:31:57  has a mandate to make 
the internet accessible 
19:32:00 for people with 
disabilities and 
19:32:02 internet society has a 
different
19:32:04  funds. 
I won't get into the 
19:32:06 details of those funds 
and those opportunities, 
19:32:09 if there are questions I 
handle those after this 
19:32:12 intervention. 
Certainly, they are 
19:32:14 small grants

19:32:14  and there are

19:32:16  small grants of up to 
$5000
19:32:18  and the large grants of 
up to $30,000
19:32:21 . 
Available if there are
19:32:23  any

19:32:25  projects for people 
with disabilities to 
19:32:27 make internet accessible

19:32:29  in a specific region or 
country.
19:32:31  That

19:32:35  internet society would 
welcome and the internet 
19:32:37 society would fund these 
grants through its 
19:32:40 foundation which is 
called the internet 
19:32:42 society foundation. 
I will stop here and I 
19:32:45 will

19:32:47  leave the audience to 
ask any questions if 
19:32:50 there are any. 
Thank you. HELANI 
19:32:52 GALPAYA: Thank you. 
That was quite a useful 
19:32:55 one for entrepreneur is 
here. I appreciate that. 
19:32:58 Kim, you had the last 
word before we move to 
19:33:02 Gerald to summarise, 
thank you. KIM:
19:33:04  I wanted

19:33:05  to follow on the topic 
of business models.
19:33:08  The innovation fund, for

19:33:09  assistive

19:33:10  web tech we are 
supporting
19:33:12  different innovators.

19:33:14  They are providing

19:33:16 , two of them are 
providing on demand
19:33:21  sign language 
interpretation, one in 
19:33:23 India, one in Pakistan. 
The other innovator is 
19:33:26 providing accessibility 
conversion services.
19:33:30  For documents, media, 
apps, everything. 
19:33:32 Basically

19:33:34  it enhances the 
accessibility
19:33:36  of other content.

19:33:38  The reason I mentioned 
that its full context.
19:33:46  The revenue generation 
model would be based on 
19:33:49 the type of solution. 
Rohan mentioned that we 
19:33:52 want to try, as far as 
possible,
19:33:54  to move the cost to the 
users.
19:33:57  Because if we think

19:33:58  of the most underserved 
that we are trying to 
19:34:02 reach through these 
innovations.
19:34:03  And the fact that 
persons with 
19:34:05 disabilities are 
typically
19:34:08  more (inaudible) for 
the obvious reasons we 
19:34:10 want to remove the cost 
to them as much as 
19:34:14 possible. 
We can do this through 
19:34:16 the B2B model of the B2B 
to the model which Rohan 
19:34:20 touched on. 
It goes far beyond 
19:34:22 cinemas

19:34:23 , it goes to government 
services, banks, 
19:34:25 healthcare providers,

19:34:26  these are all 
institutions, academic 
19:34:28 institutions, campaigners

19:34:29  subscription fees on 
behalf
19:34:30  of those

19:34:32  who use their services 
and should really be 
19:34:35 doing that

19:34:36  to provide accessible 
and inclusive services.
19:34:39  The other is 
partnerships where, for 
19:34:42 us as a

19:34:45  – the one that made the 
most sense is 
19:34:48 partnerships with 
operators. Typically, 
19:34:50 two very

19:34:50  mistake make varying 
degrees
19:34:57 , they can zero in 
conference of the 
19:35:00 outcome of data usage, 
they can also help out 
19:35:03 in terms of

19:35:07  marketing and there are 
a whole lot of benefits 
19:35:10 to these kind of 
partnerships. What we 
19:35:13 have

19:35:19  also seen, not in 
relation to the business 
19:35:22 model suffered more 
around the value of a 
19:35:25 partnership there and 
trying to reduce the 
19:35:27 cost to the end user. 
There is a lot of value 
19:35:31 that you can leverage 
from traditional 
19:35:33 operators asset, that of 
the existing 
19:35:36 infrastructure and 
processes and marketing 
19:35:38 efforts and so forth 
that can be leveraged by
19:35:41  80 innovators. 
We have an interesting, 
19:35:43 if anyone is interested, 
a framework and building 
19:35:46 synergies of mobile 
operators. A report that 
19:35:48 was commissioned by 
Innovation form about 
19:35:51 operators. 
Likewise,
19:35:51  if you are interested 
in a
19:35:57  -- AT innovators. 
They are making their own
19:35:59  servers

19:36:02  accessible. 
We have partnerships 
19:36:04 with some of our 
partners who are not
19:36:08  only delivering a 
solution to end users 
19:36:11 but also helping those 
operators be more 
19:36:14 accessible for the 
employees. With 
19:36:15 disabilities as well so 
they are providing some 
19:36:18 excess --

19:36:19  accessibility in the 
organisation as well and 
19:36:22 not just

19:36:24  customer facing. 
There's mutual benefit 
19:36:26 there and get these 
things reduce the cost 
19:36:29 to the end user.

19:36:30  I will leave it there. 
I'm happy to chat more 
19:36:34 about this if anyone is 
interested. HELANI 
19:36:36 GALPAYA: Wonderful, 
thank you very much.
19:36:38  Gerald,

19:36:40  your thoughts on this 
session?
19:36:43  GERALD GOGGIN:

19:36:45  No pressure.

19:36:47  It has been a really

19:36:49  interesting session.

19:36:52  I have been to, like 
others, quite if you
19:36:55  disability

19:37:16  -- the business models 
of how you think about 
19:37:19 the technology. 
But what the repertoire 
19:37:21 is. 
I think that is really 
19:37:23 useful and done from a 
very different 
19:37:26 perspective. 
I would love to see that 
19:37:28 systematised up a bit. 
Whether as a toolkit,
19:37:31  a set of options.

19:37:33  Or something

19:37:34  to bring together

19:37:36  some of those things. 
Both the lessons
19:37:39  in what Divya was 
saying, the work around
19:37:42  the accelerator

19:37:45 , the sense that one 
thing often missing is 
19:37:49 the context, right? 
The technology 
19:37:51 development just

19:37:52  heads off in the wrong 
kinds of ways.
19:37:55  One of the processes

19:37:56  that can

19:37:57  work

19:37:58  to help

19:38:00  provide those linkages 
in the disability
19:38:02  system

19:38:03 , Divya made the point 
that
19:38:07  the coldest ability 
ecosystem is very 
19:38:10 fragmented.

19:38:14  That is the case. 
What I got in this 
19:38:17 session was a lot of 
hope. A lot of terrific 
19:38:21 things happening. 
In the different 
19:38:23 countries, sectors 
perhaps. With some 
19:38:25 contest. 
And I need perhaps
19:38:27  for us to unpack a bit 
more and discussed the 
19:38:31 business models. 
What are those
19:38:33 , these obstruction 
options, corporate 
19:38:35 social responsibilities.

19:38:36  And then the place

19:38:37  of things

19:38:40  as (Unknown name) was 
putting,
19:38:42  the sense of it building

19:38:45  accessibility into the 
infrastructure
19:38:49 , the role of the 
government.
19:38:52  They are things that are

19:38:55  in play and remind me 
of the comment from
19:38:58  the earlier session

19:38:59 ,

19:39:00  Regina's

19:39:01  comment

19:39:05  about things needing to 
be fitted to a context.
19:39:13  Some of the issues 
about the global 
19:39:15 circulation of these 
ideas and models, right? 
19:39:18 Which is what I have 
enjoyed about this 
19:39:21 session date has been 
reversed
19:39:23  engineered. 
The ideas are coming 
19:39:24 from different parts of 
the world
19:39:27  and the circulating 
backup. Sometimes the 
19:39:29 ideas that have been 
circulated around 
19:39:31 globally

19:39:33  have not been 
particularly helpful. 
19:39:35 They have come from 
particular context and 
19:39:37 they haven't worked 
necessarily. I think 
19:39:39 there is some way for us 
to do here about
19:39:43  how we can pull this 
together in a way. I see 
19:39:47 some of the elements 
here.
19:39:51  Not just an academic 
publication. It is much 
19:39:54 more about trying to 
really conceptualise
19:39:56  this and to work through

19:39:58  what are robust

19:39:59  kinds of options.

19:40:01  About innovation,

19:40:03  what those ecosystems 
might look like
19:40:05  and how you might build 
those bridges
19:40:08 , how you might get 
those partnerships,
19:40:10  how the business models 
work.
19:40:13  And what

19:40:14  are the

19:40:17  overarching policy 
options as well?
19:40:19  I thought

19:40:21  that was tremendously

19:40:24  important and 
interesting about the 
19:40:25 discussion here.

19:40:27  Just maybe a couple 
more things to note.
19:40:31  I thought Katie's 
presentation was really 
19:40:33 important in drawing 
attention
19:40:38  particularly to the 
pandemic and the 
19:40:40 pandemic innovations. 
Which was a point that 
19:40:43 was then taken up by

19:40:44  Mohammed at the end as 
well.
19:40:47  Also, the love letter 
idea I think captured
19:40:50  the sense of the users 
and looking at the users
19:40:54  and the innovation is a 
real force and how it 
19:40:58 can capture that a bit 
more as well. I think
19:41:03  there are many other 
things that I couldn't 
19:41:06 possibly summarise in 
any meaningful way but 
19:41:09 talk – I took lots of 
notes. Helani, back to 
19:41:12 you. 
HELANI GALPAYA: Thank 
19:41:14 you, Gerald.

19:41:16  All I have to do is a 
lot of logistics which 
19:41:20 is to say that you have 
probably already seen the
19:41:23  blog about yesterday's 
proceedings. There will 
19:41:25 be another one on our 
website
19:41:28 , LIRNE Asia.net, latest 
by tomorrow,
19:41:30  please blog will 
contain links
19:41:34  to all of the 
presentations if you 
19:41:37 haven't found those on 
the chat already. There 
19:41:40 is a disability site,

19:41:41  a button if you scroll 
down on our webpage 
19:41:45 which has a lot of our 
content as well. And, we 
19:41:49 will of course – this 
has been a wonderful 
19:41:52 event. 
Made rich by everyone in 
19:41:54 this audience. 
Speakers, listeners,
19:41:56  thank you very much

19:41:58  for everyone

19:42:00  who accepted the 
invitation and 
19:42:02 participated.

19:42:03  And it was really a 
bunch of reflective 
19:42:06 comments that we had.

19:42:08  Which is why I 
appreciate this very 
19:42:10 much. 
I would like to
19:42:14 , other than thanking 
the speakers, I think 
19:42:17 the LIRNE Asia team need 
a lot of thanks. Thank 
19:42:21 you to my team and in 
particular, if they make 
19:42:24 it could come on screen. 
She did not speak 
19:42:28 throughout the days. 
But none of this work 
19:42:31 would happen without her.

19:42:32  Managing logistics, 
project and budget and 
19:42:34 this. 
Thank you very much.
19:42:39  The last thing I would 
like to do is ask if 
19:42:43 everyone could put the 
cameras on for the 
19:42:46 traditional group photo 
in these days of the 
19:42:49 same on a blog post I 
going to be full of 
19:42:53 little pictures of all 
of us.
19:42:58  Right?

19:42:59  Here we go.

19:43:09  Done.

19:43:11  Thank you, everyone.

19:43:12  Have a lovely weekend.

19:43:15  Good night, afternoon, 
evening.
19:43:16  We will be in touch.

19:43:21  GERALD GOGGIN: Thanks 
so much again.
19:43:26  Live captioning by 
Ai-Media